Why is AT&T losing its pilots?

[CRJCA]

I believe "Turtle" is referring to legacy AT&T out of Morristown. That very reputation (the name) is what keeps people lining up. Oh, along with the shiny jets and economy. But you are right, given options, there isn't much of a chance a seasoned, quality crewmember would choose that department right now.

 

[CRJCA]

Sounds like " Shakedown" to me. No idea about the arguments thing though....

I do remember him giving a line check to two people in this thread and criticizing them for using flows on all the checklists. "We don't do flows here."


Don't forget to put in your mandatorily voluntary United Way donation, CRJ.

That's hilarious by the way, just saw that haha. So true.

 

[Count Dracula]

I hear you, Guido. But perhaps your attitude is rare. Have we not all flown with people who see expensive hotels and cars as an entitlement?

Not an entitlement, but being treated as a professional......unfortunately, that is disappearing. All you have to do is check this site once a day.

 

[Count Dracula]

Snicker. :blush:
And that right there is a large problem in our industry now. The new breed of Aviation Directors and Chief Pilots are lacking in the bulge when it comes to standing up for their guys. They're all a bunch of yes men (and I use the term men loosely).

They have to be yes men due to the mismanaged and irresponsible financial decisions that they or their partner have made.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Not an entitlement, but being treated as a professional......unfortunately, that is disappearing. All you have to do is check this site once a day.

Man, you got me there... Good point.

 

[Turtledriver]

Word is GP is the chief pilot. Just collecting paychecks and allowing the Pompous A-hole, GD, the majority of day to day ops. GD has it in his head the next directorship should be his based on 30 years of ineptness. The tiny politico director doesn't know the line of manure being shoveled on his expensive shoes, and just goes along. The other 2 Asst Chief Pilots are a mess. Between arguing with his daughter and circling the drain of retirement, he is doing Shots at the bar long into the night with the other Asst chief pilot, a total yes man. I guess this shot thing cropped up during a chairmans retreat to JAC. Supposedly goes against their rest rules or lack of rest rules. Somebody wrote it up, but GD covered it up.

A small bit of poetic license used. I don't know if an actual drain was mentioned.

 

[Turtledriver]

I believe "Turtle" is referring to legacy AT&T out of Morristown. That very reputation (the name) is what keeps people lining up.

That was a great department as well but I am referring to the SWBell, SBC, new AT&T department. My understanding was the previous CEO and Director were very close, which helped with a unified vision. The chief pilot prior to one left to start Cingular and returned when the New AT&T bought out Bell South. Remember, it wasn't a merger, they were bought. Why Bell South pilots were kept over legacy pilots is one of the great mysteries of all time. Industry wide nobody could believe it.

Now the New AT&T is in tatters and from a career position it sounds like it is an entry level, time builder, until a career presents itself

 

[LegacyDriver]

The previous director was a tool. He just managed to bs the previous CEO enough to get away with it. Karma seems to have caught up in a big way. The only vision DY had was of his ego.

 

[Turtledriver]

I understand your beef with DY. As mentioned several times on here, an absolutely horrible decision was made in keeping the Bell South pilots over those he had personally hired. I have known him for over 20 years and yes he can be hard headed. I remember when the department had the huge disagreement over the landing light. If I recall, the story correctly, it was GD who was afraid if management gave in on the landing light, "who knows what they will want next?" Which is an entirely different topic I will address below

 

[Turtledriver]

Dassault, which is the manufacturer of aircraft in which AT&T fly, and Flight Safety, which is the training facilitator for AT&T, both use QRH checklists, consisting of very concise, effective flows to ready the aircraft for a particular phase of flight. Most flight departments, preach a "train how you fly" approach. AT&T, under the lack of guidance, and fear of losing control, choose to disregard the Dassault QRH, and use their on ad hoc checklists. An example is the Dassault before landing checklist may have 3 steps (aircraft dependent). AT&T has more than double the steps. To include the aforementioned landing lights. I have heard it from Flight Safety (nobody is immune there) and a few of their pilots. GD is under the belief that he knows better than the manufacturer and the Training Facility. They are flying Easy jets in the same manner as a Falcon 20. Their checklists, which apparently he designs but doesn't follow (Rubber Jungle & #2 engine not starting due to Thrust Lever) are full of garbage and unnecessary steps simply for the lowest common denominator (Weak Management Pilots). I saw the AT&T 900 Easy paper checklist. I was told they spent $$$$$ to change ECL to match their Falcon 20 days.

 

[Turtledriver]

Another point about the previous director. Nothing came out. Nobody talked. Everything was kept internal. Not necessarily good, but it was a very low key operation. Designed to keep a low profile, not attract attention.

Now, it is in my opinion completely in disarray. I have been at this a very long time, and I have never witnessed such a decline, other than a department closing. The amount of negativity coming from the pilot group directed at the top 5 is a sign of trouble.

 

[semperfido]

you guys are having a great conversation among the two of you. BUT, who really gives a rat's ass about AT&T Flight Dept?

 

[pilotyip]

you guys are having a great conversation among the two of you. BUT, who really gives a rat's ass about AT&T Flight Dept?

Not exactly true, if there were an opening there, there would be a long line of potential candidates.

 

[gern_blanston]

you guys are having a great conversation among the two of you. BUT, who really gives a rat's ass about AT&T Flight Dept?

This^^

Not exactly true, if there were an opening there, there would be a long line of potential candidates.

Not this^^

 

[AeroDork]

I remember when the department had the huge disagreement over the landing light.

Would you be willing to expand on what the disagreement was over a landing light? Management wanting to "save the costs of the bulbs" by not using them in the daytime or something?

you guys are having a great conversation among the two of you. BUT, who really gives a rat's ass about AT&T Flight Dept?

I think topics like these need to be talked about regularly, and the bad departments and managers outed. There seems to be a rash of Aviation Managers and Chief Pilots now who are nothing more than limp-dicked yes men who won't stand up for their guys, and can't get out of the "that's the way we've always done it" mentality. It's nice to get these discussions out there so the up-and-comers in our industry can see what kind of managers not to be.

 

[semperfido]

Are you ********************ting me Aerodork? Like these stories are news worthy?

 

[LegacyDriver]

Ah yes, the taxi light thing. Let's just say it was an opportunity for Nator* (GD) to show leadership (GN even put research effort into it to prove the point and was dismissed entirely). Instead he (Nator) chose to be petty and tell his pilots how to fly. Never mind that leadership decreed earlier to the Safety Committee, "We don't tell pilots how to fly" when a recommendation was put forward to change how the taxi checklist was done.

End result. Pilots weren't "told how to fly" and a 50 wound up in the mud. It wasn't addressed after that either.

DY did a lot of stupid things like that. One of the pilots in this thread proved that the company could save several hundred thousand dollars a year by changing the policy on cruise speeds. Again, "We don't tell pilots how to fly" but there was a MANDATORY Mach 0.80-0.82 cruise speed. Even if you were early you could not slow down to save fuel. DY, in his wisdom (when faced directly with the data) said, "We researched this and the savings are not significant." Well maybe they were insignificant when JET A was $2.50 a gallon but when it was $10.85/gal it became enormous.

"We don't tell pilots how to fly."

Right. But you sure told pilots how to find another job because of your inefficiency. Hey, at least you had "The Largest Falcon Fleet in the World" (Trademark).

Any way, it is all old news now. SemperFido may be right. Who really cares? AT&T will always find pilots... Heck, even the WORST 135 night freight company finds pilots. People need jobs and someone is always hungry enough to do it.

There are quite a few REALLY GOOD PEOPLE over there right now. I hope things are better for them than it sounds.




* Not Allowed To Recommend - Great inside joke based on a pilot GD knew at church and brought aboard. Dude was eventually let go (won't go into details, but a really nice guy). Sad situation. Hence the callsign.

 

[LegacyDriver]

. It's nice to get these discussions out there so the up-and-comers in our industry can see what kind of managers not to be.

As a Marine I think SemperFido would be on board with this.

"Know your Marines and look out for their welfare."

"1) Accomplish the mission. 2) Look out for the welfare of your men."

Sounds like good advice to me, be you an F/O or a D.O.

 

[semperfido]

As a Marine I think SemperFido would be on board with this.

"Know your Marines and look out for their welfare."

"1) Accomplish the mission. 2) Look out for the welfare of your men."

Sounds like good advice to me, be you an F/O or a D.O.

Semperfido would agree that in The Marines, he would be on board with that concept. In a he said/she said cluster F of disgruntled corp pilot banter, not so much.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Semperfido would agree that in The Marines, he would be on board with that concept. In a he said/she said cluster F of disgruntled corp pilot banter, not so much.

Lol

Well let us hope the concept rubs off on the next generation of leadership....