Why is AT&T losing its pilots?

[gern_blanston]

Hey, bro, nine weeks ago called. They want your post back. Just sayin'.

Yeah... Who wants to hear somebody bitch and moan about something that happened in the past.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Yeah... Who wants to hear somebody bitch and moan about something that happened in the past.

Hahahha! Touche'!!!

 

[Turtledriver]

This is not to bash everyone at AT&T. Once asked why pilots were leaving, info came out as to some reasons. This is from people working in this flight department, tired of the conditions, and also looking for new positions. It is a fairly simple question, and it is being answered.

The Management team by all accounts is inept. A Director that is more interested in padding his bonus through "selective" hiring. A Chief Pilot that has turned over the day to day ops to an egotistical assistant chief pilot, who in turn is terrified of being shown up, by everyone, including the janitor. So GD rules the department through fear, and by holding onto every menial task, only to ignore the very checklists he designs. The other two assistant chief pilots appear to be inconsequential, as they do shots together at the local watering "hole", in complete defiance of the rules they are supposed to enforce. Otherwise, one is perpetually retiring, the other just nods yes to whatever GD says.

An atmosphere has been created in which being a pilot is secondary to secondary jobs which have become primary. These secondary or is it primary jobs, are so important as it pits everyone in the department against each other, in competition of coveted bonuses. Why coveted? Because the pay is incredibly low.

The acrobatic pilot, fed up with the shear stupidity of it all, performed perhaps his greatest maneuver, and Immelmanned out of GD's Three Ring Circus.

Lastly, the rules under which this department works, are simply unsafe and dangerous. This is how it was explained to me. The only rest given to a crew is the 10 hours immediately after a flight. If the crew sits for three days, no other rest is given. They are on call, 24/7 for the next 3 days. There are a couple of criteria about the exact time it starts, but it was confusing, and seems to be essentially ignored. No defined rest, no drinking, and lots of phone calls and emails at all times of the day and night. Most crews seem to ignore the rules or more aptly just don't know them.

 

[Turtledriver]

Here's another example of the pompous a-hole GD taking care of his folks. All the aircraft are doing a big lift at an away locale, and the crews are working their tails off. Well except GD. He flew his wife out for a nice romantic week of sightseeing, hitting all the tourist spots. Took the rental car and left his crew stranded. The other working crews are flying max duty days, while he is on a mini vacation. Don't you wish he had your back?

 

[SansPlane]

Here's another example of the pompous a-hole GD taking care of his folks. All the aircraft are doing a big lift at an away locale, and the crews are working their tails off. Well except GD. He flew his wife out for a nice romantic week of sightseeing, hitting all the tourist spots. Took the rental car and left his crew stranded. The other working crews are flying max duty days, while he is on a mini vacation. Don't you wish he had your back?

I kind of wish this thread would die. I make no judgement about the guy in question... But... it is generally accepted that those who have worked their way to the top (by whatever means) get the perks associated with that position. This "guy" a ****************************** or not - bully for him and his wife. That said, if the story is precise, IMO, a better person would have rented their own transportation. Thus this thread will likely continue...

Really FI? D o u c h e gets asterisks?

 

[hammer2]

I remember when I I lived in SA, USAA and SBC were the most coveted flying jobs... This thread is a sad fact of aviation...unless you're flying for USAA!

 

[CRJCA]

From a review of old posts on ***************, you guys (LD) have been bashing AT&T since 2008. Now c'mon, don't you think things may have changed?

LD is right. It has changed for the worse, that's why they have lost some long time, coveted crewmembers to places like Southwest. This would be unheard of in a normal dept. I don't always agree or like what LD posts (sorry LD) but he and turtle have been eerily accurate. I have even been contacted by AT&T asking who these guys are because they are distressed by this thread. Like many others, I would simply like this thread to go away. It is too painful to read, and many good people are being burned at the stake in an effort to get the word out to potential suitors. That's a sad thing, but the OP and many others on the board would like the straight story and they got it. If you don't want the answer don't ask the question.

 

[CRJCA]

I remember when I I lived in SA, USAA and SBC were the most coveted flying jobs... This thread is a sad fact of aviation...unless you're flying for USAA!

This is also true, but don't kid yourself I know guys at USAA as well and their rice bowl is tipping over. Also take HEB as a sad example. They used to require 5000 PIC to interview, and the recent hiring candidates had less than 2500 TT and a few weren't sure they even wanted to move to San Antonio!! The market there is in upheaval and moving in the wrong direction. So sad.

 

[hammer2]

This is also true, but don't kid yourself I know guys at USAA as well and their rice bowl is tipping over. Also take HEB as a sad example. They used to require 5000 PIC to interview, and the recent hiring candidates had less than 2500 TT and a few weren't sure they even wanted to move to San Antonio!! The market there is in upheaval and moving in the wrong direction. So sad.

That's sad SA's a great city to live in...I had a friend who flew for Diamond Shamrock for many years. Seemed like it was a great job during the 90s. Even better when Valero offered him a big chunk of change to leave when they bought DS.

 

[LegacyDriver]

The market in SA is in upheaval? LOL Understatement of the year. (Edited out regarding two other departments there.) Hard to believe San Antonio is bigger than San Diego considering the lack of corporate gigs there, good or bad...

 

[Turtledriver]

If its true AT&T is "distressed" by this thread, it only has management to blame. I am told the atmosphere is toxic. Management uses the old philosophy "the beatings will continue until moral improves". The only thing distressful is they don't know who to punish, when the reality sounds like they are their own largest problem.

A previous poster mentioned "perks for those who have worked their way to the top". Like the old Mel Brooks movie, "History of the World", "It's good to be the King". Except when your hardworking crews are criss crossing the U.S. while you wine and dine the misses, probably on the company dime.

The key word missing from this entire thread is Leadership. It appears to be missing from this flight department as well. We all know, corporate aviation is at the whim of the CEO's. That doesn't relinquish the CP from being a leader. Nor does it allow for pompous asst cp wannabes to just lie in wait until retirements allow your number to be called so you can ascend to their throne.

Hammer2 is right. A career in this department used to be a coveted position. Now it seems to be in free fall to nothing more than a place holder until hours are built, or a true career position becomes available.

Management is reactionary and a scorned. Leadership is assertive and respected. It's all too clear where AT&T has gone

 

[LegacyDriver]

I think I covered the leadership aspect quite clearly earlier....more than once.

 

[SharkRider]

Pardon my ignorance, but who is HEB that can't get pilots to work there?

 

[hammer2]

I have even been contacted by AT&T asking who these guys are because they are distressed by this thread.

If this is true, then AT&T is nothing more than a job to build time or stay current till southwest calls or something better comes along. Sounds like they have too much time on their hands with too many fingers in the dike (the dikes associated with water ).

 

[LegacyDriver]

Pardon my ignorance, but who is HEB that can't get pilots to work there?

They *can* get people. From what I am told, however, there is a push to get young, malleable pilots they can groom into a good fit for the culture. This appears to be preferable to hiring a higher time, experienced person that might question how things are done initially because of prior background.

Something like that.

Funny part of it is that this strategy is the same one SBC used long ago which resulted in the current "Four Horsemen of Incompetence".

I don't think HEB is hurting for qualified people by any means, just appears to be a situation where experience is a detriment.

 

[hammer2]

They *can* get people. From what I am told, however, there is a push to get young, malleable pilots they can groom into a good fit for the culture. This appears to be preferable to hiring a higher time, experienced person that might question how things are done initially because of prior background.

Something like that.

Funny part of it is that this strategy is the same one SBC used long ago which resulted in the current "Four Horsemen of Incompetence".

I don't think HEB is hurting for qualified people by any means, just appears to be a situation where experience is a detriment.

I hear its a tough gig, but in today's market it's probably a good way to feed the family. We had some guys leave Flexjet to work for them, and word was they hated the how the schedule could change at the drop of a dime.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I hear its a tough gig, but in today's market it's probably a good way to feed the family. We had some guys leave Flexjet to work for them, and word was they hated the how the schedule could change at the drop of a dime.

Agreed but....I know one guy (confirmed by someone on the inside) who was turned down for being TOO experienced. Ridiculous by any measure, particularly since he is precisely the type every department claims to want.

For my money, I love that Hill Country by San Antone. A pilot could put up with a lot to live there. Would be worth it.

 

[hammer2]

For my money, I love that Hill Country by San Antone. A pilot could put up with a lot to live there. Would be worth it.

Amen! :beer:

I'd love to settle somewhere around Medina Lake.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Amen! :beer:

I'd love to settle somewhere around Medina Lake.

A man with taste. I will +1 you on that!
:beer:

 

[rumrnr78]

LD- We need a run down on your pet names for the pilots! Heeeeey!