Virgin America QOL

[AEROSQUADRON69]

Ladies and Gents AT VIRGIN,

I'd like to hear your honest thoughts and advice about VA. I'm employed, flying for OO 4+ years now. Already have PIC. I enjoy SkyWest, but just looking for something different. I am impressed by VA's product and all. However, Would you leave after several years at a better regional to start over.
How are things looking from the inside?
Think they will survive and be competitive? Turn a profit?
What is reserve like there? Call out period mainly.
Any other comments are welcome.

 

[clickclickboom]

They have lost $678,000,000 since they started flying with $150,000,000 loan due and no way to repay. That is why they talk about an IPO..

So what were you asking about QOL?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They have lost $678,000,000 since they started flying with $150,000,000 loan due and no way to repay. That is why they talk about an IPO..

So what were you asking about QOL?

Keep in mind, that in addition to trying to impress everyone with the list of random and unrelated ******************** he may or may not have done...

<----------------------------

He loves to bash an airline, the internal machinations of which he knows nothing about. Further it seems to stem from some odd inferiority complex from which he suffers as a result of being employed by an airline very similar in concept and initial structure to his own.

Cheers Click, ya lovable malcontent Blue Boy VA basher you.

 

[ualdriver]

Ladies and Gents AT VIRGIN,

I'd like to hear your honest thoughts and advice about VA. I'm employed, flying for OO 4+ years now. Already have PIC. I enjoy SkyWest, but just looking for something different. I am impressed by VA's product and all. However, Would you leave after several years at a better regional to start over.
How are things looking from the inside?
Think they will survive and be competitive? Turn a profit?
What is reserve like there? Call out period mainly.
Any other comments are welcome.

Dude, unless you are independently wealthy, I would not leave SkyWest (or any airline job) to go to Virgin America. They have serious financial issues. Unless something bad happens in the industry in the next few months, there are going to be MANY airlines hiring.

 

[Flyer1015]

QOL has been good. Reserve gives you 11 days off in a 30 day month, 12 off in 31 day month. Short call rsv has a 2 hr callout. Long call reserve is minimum 12 hr callout, but I've heard you usually know well ahead of time about trips (up to 24 hrs ahead of time). Once you're off reserve, you can pretty much jump into a 70-75 hr line with 17-18 days off. Or you can choose more credit and lesser days off. As for me, I was on reserve for only one month and jumped into a 17 day off regular line, because I was hired in a nice hiring cycle (classes basically every two weeks).

I left a regional to come here, I have no regrets. Delta is going to tear the regionals a new one. Skywest has it best, it seems their fleet losses with the Delta flying will be minimal, however, it's still a regional. The 50 seater fleet is not going to grow. And most growth at the regionals is dead. Now, any "new" flying is just a current shift in flying from one regional to another.

VA is hiring for more classes this year, classes in Aug, Sept, and I believe Oct-Dec as well. No one has a crystal ball to know if an airline will make it or not. If I did, I'd look in the future and see what airline(s) is around when i hit 65, and then go there today. But there's no such thing. I think the Virgin brands offer a good product, and VA had the unfortunate luck of starting right before the great recession of 2008 (thanks ALPA). So yes, VA has lost a lot of money, but so did all airlines 2008-2012. The fact that any startup could make it in that time is a miracle. As of right now, I haven't seen any panick signs from investors. The plane deliveries are still coming, no deferral of deliveries yet (not that it's necessarily a bad thing). Management/Investors are turning away AA from a potential merger talk, so it sounds like VA has no plans to merge. If the investors were really concerned about this place making it or not, you'd think they'd try and push for at least more talks in terms of potential mergers so they could cash out. Who knows?


Personally, I do like working here. The crews are great, the type of flying is easy, the pay improving. Zero regrets coming here from a regional. Having a full A320 PIC type rating is a nice addition to the resume.

 

[Flyer1015]

Dude, unless you are independently wealthy, I would not leave SkyWest (or any airline job) to go to Virgin America. They have serious financial issues. Unless something bad happens in the industry in the next few months, there are going to be MANY airlines hiring.

Oh. There you are. I almost missed you, ualdriver.

 

[atr42flyer]

I have been at VX since Jan, I held a line almost right away only 5 total weeks on reserve. I average 17-19 off with about 80-90 hours. like the previous guy said we were hired in a nice cycle. your mileage may vary. I do like it here a lot but if mother D calls or FedEx...see ya

 

[lanilila]

Ive been at VX almost 2 years and the quality of life has been great mainly because I live in base. I left Skywest, flew there 6 years and have no regrets leaving. Still feel many work rules were better at OO but for me the quality of life was the reason I left (was commuting to ORD). It was just too senior to be based in LAX at OO. I got LAX in 3 months. Once you get a line, you can get 17 days off 70-85 credit depending on how senior. It seems like I always got 17 days off even when I first started. Reserve here is 2 hour call out usually 3pm start on first day 3 pm release last day. I think there may have been a long call but not sure. As for surviving? Who really knows. Its a gamble. Supposed to turn a profit in 2012 so we'll see. I think Skywest was a great place to work for a regional and I wouldnt come here unless you live in SFO or LAX or you really are ready for something new. Overall Im happy here, but there are things that could improve.

 

[Pattern-Master]

Any chance in getting JFK as a base out of training?

 

[Flyer1015]

Any chance in getting JFK as a base out of training?

Hellllllll no! Many current FOs waiting for their chance to head over to JFK. I think the most junior guy right now has at least 1 to 1.5 years in company. There are only 18 crews there (36 total pilots), and there hasn't been any additions to that. The only movement into JFK happens when a current JFK pilot moves his bid back to SFO or LAX.

You can pretty much get LAX right in/out of training.

 

[LoveGun]

I've been at VA 4+ years. If I were you I would wait before applying. Here are my reasons.

1) No one knows if we are going to make it. By the end of 2012 we should know our fate.

2) VA is pausing its growth. If you got hired today, you'd likely be on reserve until fall 2013. By waiting a year you would not lose much seniority and you could wait out the current uncertainty.

3) We've hired our last captain based on current orders. If you got hired today, you'd not upgrade based on current orders. The days of quick upgrades are over. You're looking at a 5+ year upgrade, possibly indefinite. As an FO, it will take until year four to be making close to Skywest captain pay.

4) VA has the worst pay and benefits of any narrow body operator (that includes Spirit and Allegiant) while our bases are in the most expensive cities in the country.

Having said all that, I still like working at VA. The schedules are good (super efficient) and I love the bay area. Would I come here as a regional captain today? Probably not. The deal has changed. Quick upgrade is gone, and it looks like better paying carriers might be hiring soon. Moral here is starting to fall off. Many guys are getting burned out by endless transcon commutes.

 

[bri5150]

I've been at VA 4+ years. If I were you I would wait before applying. Here are my reasons.

1) No one knows if we are going to make it. By the end of 2012 we should know our fate.

2) VA is pausing its growth. If you got hired today, you'd likely be on reserve until fall 2013. By waiting a year you would not lose much seniority and you could wait out the current uncertainty.

3) We've hired our last captain based on current orders. If you got hired today, you'd not upgrade based on current orders. The days of quick upgrades are over. You're looking at a 5+ year upgrade, possibly indefinite. As an FO, it will take until year four to be making close to Skywest captain pay.

4) VA has the worst pay and benefits of any narrow body operator (that includes Spirit and Allegiant) while our bases are in the most expensive cities in the country.

Having said all that, I still like working at VA. The schedules are good (super efficient) and I love the bay area. Would I come here as a regional captain today? Probably not. The deal has changed. Quick upgrade is gone, and it looks like better paying carriers might be hiring soon. Moral here is starting to fall off. Many guys are getting burned out by endless transcon commutes.

Admittedly, I haven't started yet, but I think your assessment is a bit pessamistic. While I share your concern about the financial health, I don't see anything happening this year (heck, the year is almost over!). There seems to be a few projects going on that precludes that. Second, I thought it would be the case that I would be on reserve for a year, but they already said they want to hire 25 more by the end of this year. That should almost get me off reserve right there. I also think there is a bit more hiring before long term fo's. It's not my plan, but there will be plenty going to the legacies when they start hiring. Lastly, I will pretty much back to my rj captain pay at year 3, so 2 years from now. Again, you probably know more than me as I don't start there for a couple weeks, but these are the things I have been hearing. I look forward to seeing you on the line! .

 

[LoveGun]

Admittedly, I haven't started yet, but I think your assessment is a bit pessamistic. While I share your concern about the financial health, I don't see anything happening this year (heck, the year is almost over!). There seems to be a few projects going on that precludes that. Second, I thought it would be the case that I would be on reserve for a year, but they already said they want to hire 25 more by the end of this year. That should almost get me off reserve right there. I also think there is a bit more hiring before long term fo's. It's not my plan, but there will be plenty going to the legacies when they start hiring. Lastly, I will pretty much back to my rj captain pay at year 3, so 2 years from now. Again, you probably know more than me as I don't start there for a couple weeks, but these are the things I have been hearing. I look forward to seeing you on the line! .

Yeah, I suppose there will be a bit of a hiring binge in an attempt to stack the anti-union vote. New guys tend to vote against the union. After the vote things will come to a halt until new aircraft hit the property.

As for what's going on this year... For years management has maintained that the reason we can't make a profit is our rapid growth. Well, we are pausing our growth. If we show a profit, then the VA business model is a success and maybe an IPO is on the horizon. If we don't show a profit prepare for the worst. Our CEO is still promising a full year operating profit for 2012. He is either confident we'll succeed or he knows he'll be sacked if we can't make a profit. Cush has stated in numerous interviews (even after our massive first quarter loss) that we will be profitable (operating not net) for 2012. That's the kind of statement you can't back away from. He's all in on us being profitable this year. From the info presented to the employees it looks as if we will not be able to turn a full year operating profit. I hope I am wrong.

Hey, i hope we succeed. I'm all in on this place too. If it tanks i'm screwed and so is my family. The prevailing mood I'm encountering on line these days is most FOs wouldn't have applied here if there were any other options out there.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Many guys are getting burned out by endless transcon commutes.

You got that right! 80% of VA guys commute, but there is no chance in Hades getting any more east coast based flying. Yes, JFK exists for less than 20 crews, but the trips there only appeal to vampires and good luck commuting in and out of JFK.

Can't take any flying out of SFO. No way, can't touch that.

 

[Flyer1015]

If we show a profit, then the VA business model is a success and maybe an IPO is on the horizon. If we don't show a profit prepare for the worst. Our CEO is still promising a full year operating profit for 2012. He is either confident we'll succeed or he knows he'll be sacked if we can't make a profit. Cush has stated in numerous interviews (even after our massive first quarter loss) that we will be profitable (operating not net) for 2012. That's the kind of statement you can't back away from. He's all in on us being profitable this year. From the info presented to the employees it looks as if we will not be able to turn a full year operating profit. I hope I am wrong.

Rumors are the 2nd quarter earnings were not what was expected. As in, another loss. After the 75 mil loss for 1st quarter, and the supposed loss of 2nd quarter, I think having a full year 2012 as profitable is now a pipe dream. I concur with your assessment though, that Cush has said several times we will be profitable for 2012, and if that goal isn't achieved, I think we'll have a replacement in the most senior of management. I don't think this place would just disappear, but I think you'll see new blood coming in and taking over.

 

[AEROSQUADRON69]

All,

Thank you for your input. No one has a crystal ball. Just trying to see how those AT VA feel about things.
LAX base is good. Love the product. Branson's a winner, but there is only so much money you a company can bleed.
When will the 2nd qt financials be out?

 

[johnsonrod]

All,

Thank you for your input. No one has a crystal ball. Just trying to see how those AT VA feel about things.
LAX base is good. Love the product. Branson's a winner, but there is only so much money you a company can bleed.
When will the 2nd qt financials be out?

Why would you give up the chance to fly the glorious MRJ????? Don't miss that chance!!!! :laugh:

 

[BuckMurdock1]

When will the 2nd qt financials be out?

When it's a loss, usually several weeks after the rest of the airlines post their profits. When it's a horrific loss (like lastQTR), more than a month after. In all cases of loss, they release at 5pm PT on a friday. If profit, 8am on a Monday (n/a for VX).

I think if this friday comes with still no #s, it will mean even scarier #s than 1st QTR. hope i'm wrong

 

[Tomct]

Things here at VA could be better, but where weren't they better when airlines were startups. Things are improving, slowly, but they are going in the right direction. Don't pay attention to the "Haters," they will have nothing to do when we start to make money other than cry. Things haven't gone the way they thought(cashwise), mostly because they tried to do things cheaply here instead of just doing it the right way. Those things will improve and the money will come. Planes are coming...5 next year and from September of 2013 on, basically one a month through 2019 which will take us to 121 aircraft I believe. These aircraft already have the financing and will be coming. Things will only get better here...there is a union vote coming, so we will see how that turns out, but we can only go up from here. Branson and the money are not going anywhere. We will be fine. If you were to stay at OO, I would say you are crazy! People here are great and the trips are mostly productive. To stay at a regional would be a death sentence if you ask me....Delta is only going to shut down more 50's....good luck!

 

[AEROSQUADRON69]

Things here at VA could be better, but where weren't they better when airlines were startups. Things are improving, slowly, but they are going in the right direction. Don't pay attention to the "Haters," they will have nothing to do when we start to make money other than cry. Things haven't gone the way they thought(cashwise), mostly because they tried to do things cheaply here instead of just doing it the right way. Those things will improve and the money will come. Planes are coming...5 next year and from September of 2013 on, basically one a month through 2019 which will take us to 121 aircraft I believe. These aircraft already have the financing and will be coming. Things will only get better here...there is a union vote coming, so we will see how that turns out, but we can only go up from here. Branson and the money are not going anywhere. We will be fine. If you were to stay at OO, I would say you are crazy! People here are great and the trips are mostly productive. To stay at a regional would be a death sentence if you ask me....Delta is only going to shut down more 50's....good luck!

That's just Delta! Who knows what UAL's contract will look like regarding scope, 50's etc.. On that note, I'd rather be at OO than any other regional. But we are not the lowest bidder, when those contracts are up.... Doubt mainline management will be looking for the best performing, quality regional.