Delta CEO on the CRJ-200 cuts

[OPECJet]

I am not sure why people think Delta will buy 9e. Delta hates owning regionals. Why pay for the cost of swapping bases and planes around when you can just tell people to do it and not pay for it?

Delta already owns it through the DIP financing. They just don't have their own name on the title.

More like a wholly pwned regional airline.

 

[bri5150]

Delta already owns it through the DIP financing. They just don't have their own name on the title.

More like a wholly pwned regional airline.

Hmmmm, and what happens after bankruptcy? Delta does not want to own regionals...period. Just like they don't want 200's, which some people couldn't get through their skulls while bickering back and forth through this whole process (not directed at Flyer in particular). Oh no, our 200's are locked in until 2017...they are the newest bestest airplanes on the planet...give me a break. Again, it is pretty ironic that original 9e guys still sit there and say your welcome for "saving" our jobs when in a week or two, they will be slated for losing more airplanes than Colgan or Mesaba. This company is fricken ridiculous from the training department, to the check airmen (heard from others, not experienced myself), to the ex-management that got us in this mess.

Okay, before I turn into Xjhawk rant over. Thank you for listening. Obviously not all directed at replied post either.

One more quick thing I heard. Management told the union they probably won't type fo's because before the deadline next year all of the fo's will have already been captains. FANTASTIC!

 

[Inconceivable]

Serious question:

What makes you think that you will emerge from bankruptcy?

Don't get emotional - just think critically: what is the competitive advantage to having any number of 900s flown by ultra-senior Mesaba lifers? No matter how concessionary the contract is, Gojets and the like can fly the airplane for less than the cost of just your captain. Why would Delta want that?

Notice how the company is not even bargaining with the employees? "Rethinking our business plan" my a$$. The plan is set and there is only one outcome. The math is clear.

 

[OPECJet]

Hmmmm, and what happens after bankruptcy? Delta does not want to own regionals...period. Just like they don't want 200's, which some people couldn't get through their skulls while bickering back and forth through this whole process (not directed at Flyer in particular). Oh no, our 200's are locked in until 2017...they are the newest bestest airplanes on the planet...give me a break. Again, it is pretty ironic that original 9e guys still sit there and say your welcome for "saving" our jobs when in a week or two, they will be slated for losing more airplanes than Colgan or Mesaba. This company is fricken ridiculous from the training department, to the check airmen (heard from others, not experienced myself), to the ex-management that got us in this mess.

Okay, before I turn into Xjhawk rant over. Thank you for listening. Obviously not all directed at replied post either.

One more quick thing I heard. Management told the union they probably won't type fo's because before the deadline next year all of the fo's will have already been captains. FANTASTIC!

Serious question:

What makes you think that you will emerge from bankruptcy?

Don't get emotional - just think critically: what is the competitive advantage to having any number of 900s flown by ultra-senior Mesaba lifers? No matter how concessionary the contract is, Gojets and the like can fly the airplane for less than the cost of just your captain. Why would Delta want that?

Notice how the company is not even bargaining with the employees? "Rethinking our business plan" my a$$. The plan is set and there is only one outcome. The math is clear.

This.

Any decisions regarding Pinnacle will be made from an office in Atlanta. Whatever is in Memphis is merely a puppet show.

 

[bri5150]

I couldn't agree more. I don't know how this place is still operating right now to be honest. It is definetly teetering.

 

[DTWFO]

Serious question:

What makes you think that you will emerge from bankruptcy?

Don't get emotional - just think critically: what is the competitive advantage to having any number of 900s flown by ultra-senior Mesaba lifers? No matter how concessionary the contract is, Gojets and the like can fly the airplane for less than the cost of just your captain. Why would Delta want that?

Notice how the company is not even bargaining with the employees? "Rethinking our business plan" my a$$. The plan is set and there is only one outcome. The math is clear.

While I agree that Pinnacle will not survive long term, I don't think a liquidation is going to happen. I'm sure Delta would love to see 1000+ flights a day cancelled over that (NOT)!! There is no way Delta could move the planes to any other carrier quick enough to avoid the MASSIVE losses and negative PR that would result from an overnight liquidation (ch 7).

 

[xjhawk]

Bri, that rant was at least as long and to the point as any of mine. Welcome to the club. I think with the expected parking of pinnacles 200's the loss of 41 900's is too much to stomach for delta. Sure they have to absorb the 200 loss as per their pilot contract but even transferring those 41 to another carrier would mean planes sitting while training occurred. I think go jets or any other carrier would be hard pressed to grow that quickly. I think the reason not to give ATP's to FO's is they will be furloughed before they need to meet the requirement. And yes I agree all decisions are made in ATL not MEM.

 

[i fly boxes]

Hmmmm, and what happens after bankruptcy? Delta does not want to own regionals...period. Just like they don't want 200's, which some people couldn't get through their skulls while bickering back and forth through this whole process (not directed at Flyer in particular). Oh no, our 200's are locked in until 2017...they are the newest bestest airplanes on the planet...give me a break. Again, it is pretty ironic that original 9e guys still sit there and say your welcome for "saving" our jobs when in a week or two, they will be slated for losing more airplanes than Colgan or Mesaba. This company is fricken ridiculous from the training department, to the check airmen (heard from others, not experienced myself), to the ex-management that got us in this mess.

Okay, before I turn into Xjhawk rant over. Thank you for listening. Obviously not all directed at replied post either.

One more quick thing I heard. Management told the union they probably won't type fo's because before the deadline next year all of the fo's will have already been captains. FANTASTIC!

I usually don't care about the pinnacle bashing becuase most of it is true. I will tell you however that the Check Airmen at pinnacle have been working their butts off for years and keeping this airline running. For the most part you will only find one or two that suck. Most people when they fail, the come unprepared. Im not going to say that pinnacle has better training than mesaba but i will say that whatever you hear about pinnacle check airman is false.

 

[xjhawk]

But what is stopping delta from using the Mesaba certificate or the old NWA one and starting a Song type carrier? I think they need to use the 76 seat planes from the delta contract as negotiating capital to rid themselves of 200's at ASA or Skywest. But to create a new company like NWA did with compass so everyone is year 1 pay?

 

[bri5150]

I usually don't care about the pinnacle bashing becuase most of it is true. I will tell you however that the Check Airmen at pinnacle have been working their butts off for years and keeping this airline running. For the most part you will only find one or two that suck. Most people when they fail, the come unprepared. Im not going to say that pinnacle has better training than mesaba but i will say that whatever you hear about pinnacle check airman is false.

Okay, I don't have names, but here is a list of bs I have heard recently.

Failed fed ride items, some together and some seperate:
Taxiing too slow, slowed too early on approach, "can't dip a wing on xwind", fly over uncontrolled field at 500 above pattern before entering pattern, power at 45% on approach...

Things in oe that are bs (not just from Mesaba pilots, new hire as well):
Black out both mfd and pfd hand fly arrival on isis, try to overwhelm "student" by making him fly and work radios, timing briefing or fms setup, hand fly everything below 10k on first day of oe for new hire, easter egg hunt checkrides, fms fail on gear up during pc...

Here's a beauty from someone I just talked to. He was given a talking to because he turned the ice protection on too early, then he got a talking to from another because it was too late. The best part is they are both wrong. The answer is WHO GIVES A CRAP? Just turn it on.

All bs checkairman crap. If one does it, you have to be prepared for all of them to do it.

 

[JamesD]

The way I see it PNCL has one option. Threaten Delta with chapter 7 right now. Force their hand. As time moves on Delta has more options with PNCL. The only two cards PNCL has is standing up to Delta or everyone taking a 40% pay cut. Even then 40% is too much.

The other problem with the check airmen at PNCL is they all try to fix PNCL. They see themselves as the last line. The problem is they have no guidance from really anyone and because of that they all do something different. So what one check airmen tells you to do another will slap your hand for the something. Some no big deal other things just leave you scratching your head. Just don't ask for any clarification or try to find it in the book. Most are alright guys but have been given no guidance.

 

[xjhawk]

Straight from those who are in charge of the training department "the crap that has been occurring in past in reference to the check airmen and such will stop and those who will not abide will no longer be in the training department"

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

"Threaten Delta with chapter 7 right now."

This isn't a threat to Delta. In fact it helps them.

I am not rolling over and I am not at all for giving any concessions but giving them a quick out of an ASA, 144 CRJ200's just isn't a threat. It may be a challenge for a bit but ultimately they win big.

We may shut down. However there must be a plan because they could have easily NOT agreed to the financing which really isn't that much money. Heck I wonder if United/Continental may have offered some money had they thought it was such a small amount.

We may end up being a 41 CRJ900 operation with 15 year FO's but at this point I am not certain anyone knows for sure.

 

[Inconceivable]

The way I see it PNCL has one option. Threaten Delta with chapter 7 right now. Force their hand. As time moves on Delta has more options with PNCL. The only two cards PNCL has is standing up to Delta or everyone taking a 40% pay cut. Even then 40% is too much.

By this presumably you mean PNCL management? They *are* Delta. More precisely, Delta is NWA with a new name and HQ. PNCL management came from Mesaba who came from NWA. When this is all wrapped and done, where do you think the senior management types will go? Back to the mother ship in Atlanta in one form or another.

As said earlier, the plan is already made and in motion. Nothing that you can do will change it. If you had taken the first-round concessions like they wanted do you think that would have altered the DL TA and the imminent demise of the 200 fleet? Not likely.

 

[JamesD]

Yes, its the samething as a threat of a strike. Delta could handle that right now but it would cost them big.

Going to 41 airplanes is not even possible for PNCL from a buisness model aspect. We would have to work for free to make a profit.

Time for a reality check. PNCL is up to its ears in what Delta is throwing at us. Its time to start throwing back.

The money they loaned us is pocket change compared to what the exit clauses are for the other regionals.

I say force their hand?

They may have a plan but I think this might alter their hand. PNCL has to do something to survive because right now all signs point to no more pncl.

How much do you think PNCL going Chp 7 tomorow would cost Delta.

How much did the Comair strike cost?

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

I think you are over estimating pncl's worth to Delta.

Yes, its the samething as a threat of a strike. Delta could handle that right now but it would cost them big.

Going to 41 airplanes is not even possible for PNCL from a buisness model aspect. We would have to work for free to make a profit.

Time for a reality check. PNCL is up to its ears in what Delta is throwing at us. Its time to start throwing back.

The money they loaned us is pocket change compared to what the exit clauses are for the other regionals.

I say force their hand?

They may have a plan but I think this might alter their hand. PNCL has to do something to survive because right now all signs point to no more pncl.

How much do you think PNCL going Chp 7 tomorow would cost Delta.

How much did the Comair strike cost?

 

[jetflier]

IMHO DAL has PCL in CH7 to enable the leases on the 200's to be broken before their term.

There is always the possibility of restructuring PCL as a CRJ7/9 operator. I believe that DAL has EMB acft on order.

I think that I saw that some of the orders of the 76 seat acft are EMB.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

Pinnacle is not in Chapter 7 (Close the doors). We are in Chapter 11 (Reorganization).

I believe this mess started out in a situation where the company was in jeopardy. While there is going to be massive shenanigans before we emerge, Pinnacle will survive in some form. Whether I get to stay or not isn't certain but I believe the airline (at this point) will survive for a while.

Of course that's today. Delta can and will change their mind a lot along the way.

 

[wms]

Delta is keeping pinnacle alive short-term to preserve that capacity. As that capacity is moved they'll let them go.

 

[Flyer1015]

Honestly, I'm starting to doubt 9E's long term prospectus. It wouldn't be surprising if Delta parks (returns to Bombardier w/ swap for -900s) all of 9E's 140 CRJ-200s. If that happens, Pinnacle will be left with only the original 41 CRJ-900s from Mesaba. They may or may not get a few of the new increase of 70 more CRJ-900s per the Delta PWA (new TA). But assuming 9E has 41 CRJ-900s, they'll be operated by the most senior of pilots at 9E corp, people hired in the 80s and 90s. No matter how much a paycut concession they take, they still can't be as cheap as street-level entry Captains and FOs at GoJets. And why would Delta want a 41-60 CRJ-900 operation with the most senior pilot group in the Delta Connection system? Comair was announced to be reduced to 44 aircraft back in 2010, from nearly 100 aircraft. IF Delta announces that all 140 CRJ-200s from 9E will be removed, leaving only the 41 CRJ-900s, I put a 70% chance that 9E will disappear altogether come 2015/2016.