HA vs. AS

[CesnaCaptn]

I think our new airplanes have some new Racarro seats and you end up with 1in more legroom than we have now.....

Pax will see the narrow seats and perceive that they are less comfortable. Then they'll have something else to complain about.

People keep piling on about how an AS Hawaii base is inevitable. If that's true, I think igneousy2 wins either way.

I don't think a HI base is as much of a no brainer as people make it out to be. True, a cancellation costs $30K+, but do you know how much it costs to staff reserves? I recently flew with a pilot on the NC and we talked about putting an all-night zone in LAX to staff the Mexico turns. We talked about mitigating fatigue by keeping pilots flying on the same side of the clock. He said staffing that zone was going to cost $1M+. He didn't give me a time frame. I'm guessing over a year? If the stat is true that one zone costs $100K/month, then now we know how many cancellations we need each month in the islands to justify a reserve base out there. Are we there yet?

We do hnl and ogg out of BLI, Sea, pdx, smf, oak, sjc, and SAN now. Not saying its a great idea, but an islands base looks like a potential.

Mookie

To clarify, we fly to HNL or OGG out of each of those cities. We don't do HNL out of SMF and we don't do OGG out of BLI (yet, hopefully).

If we put a base in the Bay (maybe include SMF?) and SAN, then we have a crew base on each end of the HI flights except BLI and maybe SMF. I think a bigger factor than hotel costs is soft time. I'd like to know how much soft time is affected by putting bases in the Bay and SAN. I've heard from multiple sources that a base could be financially justified in the Bay, SAN and HNL, but I wonder how the cost justification changes as you open up each of those bases.

As for cancellations in the islands go, has anyone seen first hand what happens if someone calls in sick out there? I'm guessing it's rare. Do they start rolling crews? Are we really able to deadhead a pilot out to fly back in the same duty day? I know our contract allows for us to fly up to 16 hours transoceanic, but has anyone seen someone scheduled to that?

Jumpseat 737 vs Jumpseat 757/767 or A330.

There is a considerable difference, and you cant count on a seat in back to/from Hawaii all that often.

Remember when UA ran rope start 747s back in the late 90s and early 00s. That was the way to go. You would get your own crew rest area and lav in the flight deck.

I'll pass on the 757 jumpseat. That's just as bad as the 737 unless you make the "lounge."

 

[cougarblue]

back to the OP- does anyone know if Hawaiian or Alaskan have buddy passes? what are the average days off at each?

Thanks in advance!

 

[becket]

back to the OP- does anyone know if Hawaiian or Alaskan have buddy passes? what are the average days off at each?

Thanks in advance!

If Alaska ever finds out you referred to them as "Alaskan" it's a moot point for you. They wouldn't touch you with a ten foot pole after that. Big No-No.

 

[Mookie]

Alaskan brews a mean ipa...

 

[igneousy2]

back to the OP- does anyone know if Hawaiian or Alaskan have buddy passes? what are the average days off at each?

Thanks in advance!

Yes, they both do, I don't know how many HA gets but you get 24 one ways on AS.

...seriouslly...get "Alaskan" out of your vocabulary if you're going to interview here...there are some stories...not sure if it would sink you anymore...but why take the chance.

An "average" line holder at AS gets from 14-16 days off per month. It can be as low as 10 and as high as 20.

Reserve has 12 days off per month consisting of a 5 day block and a 3 day block which are "untouchable" and two 2-day blocks...of which they can only encroach into one.

Line holders and long-call reserves get 75 hours min/month and reserves get 79.

Good luck.

 

[igneousy2]

I can see how it can cost 1.0 million to staff a zone.

so say 2 zones in Hawaii at 2.0 million divided by 30,000 a cx and that is 33 a year or 2.7ish a month. That doesn't seem like that high a hurdle.

The best part about the new seats is the fact that when the person in front of you "reclines" there seat...it slides the seat cushion forward instead of the seat-back backwards...so they can now recline all they want and take up there own space instead of the people's behind them space. I can't wait for the seats. I don't know why they just don't pin all the seatbacks full upright anyway. I would take having to sit upright instead of having the seat in front of me in my knees anytime.

 

[AK737FO]

Alaskan brews a nice Stout...

 

[cougarblue]

well obviously I wouldn't get hired on at Alaskan, what about Hawaiian? How many buddy passes do they get? Do buddies still pay a fee to use them? What are schedules on the 330 like? I understand the 717 has an AM shift and a PM shift... very cool

thanks igneously2 for your previous response!

 

[cougarblue]

Also could someone chime in about the make up of the pilot group at Hawaiian & Alaska? Just curious about how old they are and the potential for seniority movement should the growth come to a halt. I have seen the numbers on Alaska over at airline pilot central but haven't ever heard or seen anything on Hawaiian

Thanks again in advance for any insight you may have

 

[Mookie]

Also could someone chime in about the make up of the pilot group at Hawaiian & Alaska? Just curious about how old they are and the potential for seniority movement should the growth come to a halt. I have seen the numbers on Alaska over at airline pilot central but haven't ever heard or seen anything on Hawaiian

Thanks again in advance for any insight you may have

Lots of mouth breathers here at Alaskan...

Mookie

 

[Rhino]

no transoceanic

Cessna Capt,

We do not fly Transoceanic at Alaska Airlines. That would be all the way to Asia. We only go "halfway" there. So, those longer duty and rest numbers do not apply.

So no, a pilot can't DH and then fly the leg back to the mainland. No matter how you slice it.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a morning zone/ evening zone reserve type of base in HNL someday. Soon? Maybe. As for now, they just call another crew that is already there and it is a re-assignment out of base (domino effect). That gives them more time to get another crewmember out there.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Cessna Capt,

We do not fly Transoceanic at Alaska Airlines. That would be all the way to Asia. We only go "halfway" there. So, those longer duty and rest numbers do not apply.

So no, a pilot can't DH and then fly the leg back to the mainland. No matter how you slice it.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a morning zone/ evening zone reserve type of base in HNL someday. Soon? Maybe. As for now, they just call another crew that is already there and it is a re-assignment out of base (domino effect). That gives them more time to get another crewmember out there.

I guess this is a stupid question, but what makes you think flying to Hawaii isn't transoceanic? Has the company or the union made an interpretation? Would ANC-Japan be transoceanic? How about HNL-NAN(Fiji) as CAL used to do? In your mind, does HA do any transoceanic flying, or do you think they don't since all of their widebody flights begin or end in HNL?

I just reread that section of the contract and a pilot must still be scheduled for less than a 12:30 duty day making this conversation practically moot. What "longer duty day and rest rules" are you referring to? We already operate those flights under flag rules.

 

[Boxboy]

Hawaii to the mainland is the longest over water leg in the world without an alternate. I would say that it qualifies as "transoceanic".

 

[becket]

Hawaii to the mainland is the longest over water leg in the world without an alternate. I would say that it qualifies as "transoceanic".

The company and the globe would say you were incorrect.

 

[Rhino]

Management and the Association agree that flying to Hawaii is not Trans-Oceanic. What I think has nothing to do with it.

Section 12
Hours of Service​

3.

Trans-Oceanic: When a pilot is scheduled within the above

limitations on a trans-ocean flight, the duty requirement which
he need not exceed shall be increased to sixteen hours(16).​

D. ​

​

Rest

​

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... ​

​

b. Trans-Oceanic: When a pilot is assigned to fly a transocean

flight, his on-duty period may not be broken by an
off-duty period of less than fourteen hours (14) block-in​

to block-out.


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