US Airways & American

[Flyer1015]

Ok big cheese. Mr DAL pilot, screwed the NW guys so freely. What does it take to make you understand that Spirit and jetBlue never were in the same category as USAir, a top paying major airline? Why don't you quit DAL and go to work for Spirit? Thats what I thought.
I have 20+ years at USAIr and Im not going to let the westicles steal my seniority! Period! And so far their lottery tickets are just pieces of paper that can't be cashed. The 9th smacked them down and now it will happen again. Nobody can look at DOH as unfair. Nobody. The NW guys call us all the time and say that we have a noble fight that they should have done the same thing= fight for DOH. It makes our industry right and people like you will thank us later when DAL wants to buy Spirit or North American and Spirit or North American wants to merger relative seniority.

Crying over spilled milk. The problem is your group didn't fight for DOH. They fought for their views (DOH) and then AGREED that if no agreement could be made with AWA, you'd go to BINDING ARBITRATION. By definition, binding means that the result is binding to you and AWA. IF you had wanted to fight for DOH, and DOH only, then your group would not have agreed to binding arbitration.

 

[shon7]

why anyone would want to buy into this mess is beyond me!

 

[sean67]

I really get disgusted with both east and west on this board. I'm an "eastie". It seems that the usual suspects always hijack a thread that has subject matter not related to our internal battle. You guys really need to get a life! I get on this site maybe once a week and see the same guys slinging mud. Does this fighting on the board really consume your life??!!(Both sides). I'm sure the AA guys would agree with me on this one.

 

[St. Nic]

Crying over spilled milk. The problem is your group didn't fight for DOH. They fought for their views (DOH) and then AGREED that if no agreement could be made with AWA, you'd go to BINDING ARBITRATION. By definition, binding means that the result is binding to you and AWA. IF you had wanted to fight for DOH, and DOH only, then your group would not have agreed to binding arbitration.

Nobody walked away from anything. THe arbitration was a seniority proposal from the previous CBA WHICH IS NOW HISTORY! REally, catch a clue and get updated on things. There is no legal precedence to use an arbitrated list from a former CBA that was expelled from the property. Bottom line, DOH is coming because it is in the USAPA bylaws and AMR pilots either arbitrate or take DOH. They will take DOH any day rather than put a bunch of kids from a regional airline ahead of them on a seniority list, sanctioned by a senile arbitrator. Been there done that. not again!

 

[Flyer1015]

Nobody walked away from anything. THe arbitration was a seniority proposal from the previous CBA WHICH IS NOW HISTORY! REally, catch a clue and get updated on things. There is no legal precedence to use an arbitrated list from a former CBA that was expelled from the property. Bottom line, DOH is coming because it is in the USAPA bylaws and AMR pilots either arbitrate or take DOH. They will take DOH any day rather than put a bunch of kids from a regional airline ahead of them on a seniority list, sanctioned by a senile arbitrator. Been there done that. not again!

Bitter much? That "regional airline" arguably saved your airline from liquidation. Your 20+ years of seniority wouldn't have mattered when your 737 was parked in the Mojave desert.

"bunch of kids" and "senile arbitrator" speaks volumes on the contempt you hold for others. The "bunch of kids" are not the reason the Nic award came out the way it did. Both the AWA group and the US Air group agreed to binding arbitration. If your group didn't want a binding award, it shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place.

 

[On Your Six]

Nobody walked away from anything. THe arbitration was a seniority proposal from the previous CBA WHICH IS NOW HISTORY! REally, catch a clue and get updated on things. There is no legal precedence to use an arbitrated list from a former CBA that was expelled from the property. Bottom line, DOH is coming because it is in the USAPA bylaws and AMR pilots either arbitrate or take DOH. They will take DOH any day rather than put a bunch of kids from a regional airline ahead of them on a seniority list, sanctioned by a senile arbitrator. Been there done that. not again!

Your previous CBA was voted out by the Majority---WHO DIDN'T LIKE THE ARBITRATION RESULT. Get a clue yourself. Judge Silver will get it right, and then you will have to eat the result. When you gamble in Vegas, and lose a hand at poker, do you take your money back because you didn't like the result (losing)? Only you guys do. Well, the same result will eventually happen, you will lose.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[Orionpilot]

Nobody walked away from anything. THe arbitration was a seniority proposal from the previous CBA WHICH IS NOW HISTORY! REally, catch a clue and get updated on things. There is no legal precedence to use an arbitrated list from a former CBA that was expelled from the property. Bottom line, DOH is coming because it is in the USAPA bylaws and AMR pilots either arbitrate or take DOH. They will take DOH any day rather than put a bunch of kids from a regional airline ahead of them on a seniority list, sanctioned by a senile arbitrator. Been there done that. not again!

You mean like the Transition Agreement, another document signed by the previous CBA that somehow seems to continue to govern our operations despite efforts by your union to change/alter it.

 

[dollacrackho]

I could listen to these arguments all day. First i would need a big frosty glass of battery acid.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Nobody walked away from anything. THe arbitration was a seniority proposal from the previous CBA WHICH IS NOW HISTORY! REally, catch a clue and get updated on things.

The agreements are between the PILOTS IN THE SERVICE OF ______ airline. Those folks haven't changed, only the agent. Really, 20+ yrs, and you don't know this simple fact?

Nope, if you had ousted ALPA 2 years earlier than you did, you'd be sitting pretty, but as it is, you've got the NIC. Eat up!

 

[aa73]

Nobody walked away from anything. THe arbitration was a seniority proposal from the previous CBA WHICH IS NOW HISTORY! REally, catch a clue and get updated on things. There is no legal precedence to use an arbitrated list from a former CBA that was expelled from the property. Bottom line, DOH is coming because it is in the USAPA bylaws and AMR pilots either arbitrate or take DOH. They will take DOH any day rather than put a bunch of kids from a regional airline ahead of them on a seniority list, sanctioned by a senile arbitrator. Been there done that. not again!

St Nic,

If we do merge, USAPA will be squashed by APA. Simple numbers fact. So your USAPA bylaws will not apply. Yes, we would probably go to arbitration and it would most likely come out relative seniority (most likely the fairest way given the demographics of both companies.) What, are you guys gonna try to form ANOTHER union if you don't like the outcome? C'mon man. If you guys agree to binding arbitration, we expect you to honor that.

Hey, we are no saints, given what we did to TWA, so I don't claim to sit here and preach holier than thou. But believe me, most of us at AA realize the conditions that led to the creation of USAPA, and it ain't impressive. In fact it's lame: you guys all agreed to binding neutral arbitration, and when you didn't like the outcome, you went off and did your own thing. We won't stand for that here. APA will become the bargaining agent if we merge, and we can all move forward from there. But good luck trying to run off and from your own union. What, 5000 Easties vs 8000 AA pilots?

All speculation anyway. Let the merger be announced, then we can grab each others throats.

 

[RNP.15]

Maybe the best solution is if Delta or Alaska buys AA.

 

[FlyinGuy]

The best solution is for aa to come out of this independent. Prolly wont happen b/c of the 2 new super carriers. If aa joins forces w/ lcc, nic will be implemented then the new list will be formed. Twa and east furloughs will be in the worst position when it is said and done. This industry sucks! But it is what it is....

Best of luck to all....

 

[Hpilot]

St Nic,

If we do merge, USAPA will be squashed by APA. Simple numbers fact. So your USAPA bylaws will not apply. Yes, we would probably go to arbitration and it would most likely come out relative seniority (most likely the fairest way given the demographics of both companies.) What, are you guys gonna try to form ANOTHER union if you don't like the outcome? C'mon man. If you guys agree to binding arbitration, we expect you to honor that.

Hey, we are no saints, given what we did to TWA, so I don't claim to sit here and preach holier than thou. But believe me, most of us at AA realize the conditions that led to the creation of USAPA, and it ain't impressive. In fact it's lame: you guys all agreed to binding neutral arbitration, and when you didn't like the outcome, you went off and did your own thing. We won't stand for that here. APA will become the bargaining agent if we merge, and we can all move forward from there. But good luck trying to run off and from your own union. What, 5000 Easties vs 8000 AA pilots?

All speculation anyway. Let the merger be announced, then we can grab each others throats.

Well, here's the big difference between the AA and east US pilots. The AA pilots may be cut throat and ready to staple us, but they're not delusional idiots.

Never wanted to work for US. I wanted to work for AA though, just never wanted to look at getting on like this.

 

[Guppiedriver]

St Nic,

If we do merge, USAPA will be squashed by APA. Simple numbers fact. So your USAPA bylaws will not apply. Yes, we would probably go to arbitration and it would most likely come out relative seniority (most likely the fairest way given the demographics of both companies.) What, are you guys gonna try to form ANOTHER union if you don't like the outcome? C'mon man. If you guys agree to binding arbitration, we expect you to honor that.

Hey, we are no saints, given what we did to TWA, so I don't claim to sit here and preach holier than thou. But believe me, most of us at AA realize the conditions that led to the creation of USAPA, and it ain't impressive. In fact it's lame: you guys all agreed to binding neutral arbitration, and when you didn't like the outcome, you went off and did your own thing. We won't stand for that here. APA will become the bargaining agent if we merge, and we can all move forward from there. But good luck trying to run off and from your own union. What, 5000 Easties vs 8000 AA pilots?

All speculation anyway. Let the merger be announced, then we can grab each others throats.

Very well said! There are 5000 pilots at US Airways, east and west. The east has approximately 3400 pilots.

 

[aa73]

Well, here's the big difference between the AA and east US pilots. The AA pilots may be cut throat and ready to staple us, but they're not delusional idiots.

Never wanted to work for US. I wanted to work for AA though, just never wanted to look at getting on like this.

Hello Hpilot,

I would venture to say that APA would NOT, nor could not, cut throats and staple. That ship has sailed, sunk and no longer exists. Ours would most likely be a merger - or heck, even USAir purchasing AMR's assets, for all I know - and any integration will either be agreed upon by both parties or submitted to BINDING neutral arbitration. I'll give you this - if USAir purchases AMR's assets, I'm pretty sure I will end up as toast. Just the nature of the beast, I harbor no illusions.

And yes, we have our own fair share of delusional idiots here too. Every airline has their 10%...

Good luck to us all.