SWAPA unhappy with new FT/DT rules

[fr8doggie]

A highly placed source has just informed me that SWAPA is not happy with the new FT/DT rules. They feel that the new rules will adversely effect the SWA pilots' ability to make extra money. SWAPA is considering petitioning the FAA for an exemption to the new rules.

They feel that it is unfair that the cargo operators were exempted and they were not. When I informed my source that both ALPA and CAPA (of which SWAPA is a member) had lobbied for the rule change he was surprised.

 

[N1atEcon]

Mostly I see/hear guys upset that cargo was exempt since we all share the same airspace. There have been midairs from pilot error before and there will be in the future. I think if they are lobbing it will be to bring out that point.

 

[CA1900]

Mostly I see/hear guys upset that cargo was exempt since we all share the same airspace.

It was the same deal with TCAS, if you recall. Not good.

 

[SWA Bubba]

A highly placed source has just informed me that SWAPA is not happy with the new FT/DT rules. They feel that the new rules will adversely effect the SWA pilots' ability to make extra money. SWAPA is considering petitioning the FAA for an exemption to the new rules.

They feel that it is unfair that the cargo operators were exempted and they were not. When I informed my source that both ALPA and CAPA (of which SWAPA is a member) had lobbied for the rule change he was surprised.

Your highly-placed source is yanking your chain. There is a contingent of pilots in SWAPA that is not happy with the rules change (for the reason you stated), but SWAPA's official position ) is to support the rules. The position was that the changes were coming whether we liked it or not, and by having a "seat at the table" through CAPA, we'd have a voice for input. SWAPA, due to one of its members actually being the current CAPA president, even asked for its members to write politicians to get the rules implemented (some in the federal administration were "stalling.") That also upset some members. They did lobby against the carveout for cargo carriers (for the reason mentioned above that we all share the same airspace).

Bubba

 

[fr8doggie]

The position was that the changes were coming whether we liked it or not, and by having a "seat at the table" through CAPA, we'd have a voice for input. Bubba

Where have I heard that before?

So you are telling me that it is absolutely false that SWAPA is considering petitioning for an exemption to the new rules? Has not SWAPA posted information that these rules will lead to a degradation of SWA pilots' income?

 

[ackattacker]

Where have I heard that before?

So you are telling me that it is absolutely false that SWAPA is considering petitioning for an exemption to the new rules? Has not SWAPA posted information that these rules will lead to a degradation of SWA pilots' income?

Sure. And I'm considering petitioning the FAA for an exemption to the 8 hour rule. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[fr8doggie]

Sure. And I'm considering petitioning the FAA for an exemption to the 8 hour rule. I'll let you know how it goes.

According to the new rules it's already been upped to 9 depending on when you start duty.

 

[Metro752]

They're upset it didn't include an extension to age 70. Get real.

According to the new rules it's already been upped to 9 depending on when you start duty.

I believe he is talking about the 8 hour rule associated with the 1 2 3 rule that isn't associated with weather.

 

[fr8doggie]

They're upset it didn't include an extension to age 70. Get real.




I believe he is talking about the 8 hour rule associated with the 1 2 3 rule that isn't associated with weather.

Understood!:beer:

 

[ackattacker]

They're upset it didn't include an extension to age 70. Get real.




I believe he is talking about the 8 hour rule associated with the 1 2 3 rule that isn't associated with weather.

You got it... something about 50 feet of the aircraft if I recall correctly. Anyway I deserve a special exemption just like Southwest does, because I'm so special and I don't have to abide by the same level of safety as everyone else!

 

[slaquer5]

Where have I heard that before?

So you are telling me that it is absolutely false that SWAPA is considering petitioning for an exemption to the new rules? Has not SWAPA posted information that these rules will lead to a degradation of SWA pilots' income?

I hope this helps.i am sure the other airlines agree.

We are aware that there is great concern amongst our pilots about the effect the ruling will have on individual earnings.***** After a cursory glance, it appears that there are items that will affect us, and items that will not.***** An accurate judgment cannot be made without an in-depth analysis.***** The Scheduling Committee has already begun this process.
*****
One puzzling item is the exemption and optional "opt-in" for cargo carriers.***** While the issuance of new FT/DT rules is a positive step, the "carve-out" for cargo carriers is unacceptable. Southwest Airlines crew.members, and the passengers we carry, share the same airspace that the cargo aircraft occupy.***** We fly parallel approaches with them in the earliest hours and in the worst weather. People on the ground are no less affected by an accident if an aircraft is carrying boxes rather than passengers.***** SWAPA opposes any regulatory scheme that fails to embrace One Level of Safety.

 

[waveflyer]

I'm starting to think that pilots in america are some of the lowest paid anywhere bc we don't like to read, think independently, and are so easily manipulated through rumor and he said/she said-

There's a link on the other thread that has the entire 314 page PDF doc outlining the new rule and how it came to be-
There you can see each subject and who commented and how they commented-
Ie: defining flight time
Alpa, capa, Swapa, IPA, APA all voiced a desire to change flight time to "beginning when the aircraft moves with the intention of flight until parked" vs "...moves under it's own power..." since we have to be there and are performing duties under tow or when holding out-
Obviously, airlines were against this-
The FAA did not adopt the change bc 1.1 is integral in many regulations
besides rest-
The entire document is very transparent and you can see exactly how Swapa argued-
And the doc does show Swapa as independent of capa- voicing it's own individual concerns

Over-simplifying the process isn't helpful- it's complicated and Swapa had varying inputs of support and protest- as all airlines and unions did

 

[fr8doggie]

Now that I have read the actual SWAPA document I can see that the SWAPA response is not quite what I had been led to believe.

Any other pax carriers hearing complaints from some of their pilots that this will cut into the bottom line?

 

[redflyer65]

I don't think it will have that much of an impact on how things run here at SW. SWAPA's only statement, as posted above, is they thought the cargo carriers should have to abide by the same rules. Seems reasonible to me. That's it.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I agree. The cargo cutout is nuts. If anyone needs FT/DT changes, those guys do.

If SWA has any objections, I would assume its because the new regs will require increased staffing. Every other carrier most probably has the same issue.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I agree that SWAPA should be able to petition to be exempt. This is definately going to negatively affect our paychecks.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I agree that SWAPA should be able to petition to be exempt. This is definately going to negatively affect our paychecks.

OH NO! You won't be able to brag about how much you make. HORRORS!

 

[27 driver]

OH NO! You won't be able to brag about how much you make. HORRORS!

That's funny right there!

 

[SWA Bubba]

OH NO! You won't be able to brag about how much you make. HORRORS!

I suspect he was just yanking YOUR chain. But regardless, he'll still be able to brag about making more than you, Fubi. And, of course, you'll still be President of the SWA Haters club, sticking a slam into every thread you can.

Pretty much normal ops; nothing will change.

Bubba

 

[Fubijaakr]

Bubba...

Just because someone critiques you doesn't mean they hate you. I guess every teacher who gave you a C in school hated you.

You boys just need to get over yourselves.