SWA scheduling question

[DougCorp-9]

So I am going to lose my 737 captain seat and will probably bid 737 FO out of MDW or BWI. My question is what percentage in seat allows you to easily get premium trips and manipulate your schedule up to around 110-120 trips per month and still have a 15-17 days off. Also what hire date can hold the above percentage in those 2 bases. Is it really as easy as everyone says to tweak your schedules? Thanks.

 

[frqntflyr]

Check your PMs

 

[Capn Butthead]

I can answer a few of those questions. I don't have a list in front of me so the percentile stuff I don't know....sorry

Both mdw and Bwi are fairly junior. You'll probably have good seniority at both. We carry a very small amount of reserves so I feel safe in saying you'll have a good line. There are always trips in open time or people (lance captains giving away one and 2 days. Over the winter it's more of a challenge to get premium but not impossible. During the summer it is very easy no matter where you are on the list.

As for the bases if you are commuting I'd say mdw is better. There are a lot of crashpads all within easy walking distance. There are bars and places to eat very close by...even a place I think called Mr c's... may have been there a few times! Also decent hotel deals close by. In Bwi you either have to take the train or a cab to the pads. There are some good hotel deals though for commuters (La Quinta).

Sorry for the lack of info but I hope I helped a little bit...

 

[dicko]

Check your PMs

Hey FF,

Would you mind sharing the info ? The question is applicable to many of us.

 

[DougCorp-9]

FF, I didn't get your PM.

 

[saabcaptain]

Put simply an FO that can hold a line (not the bottom 8%) can fly 110-120 per month with IMHO ease. To do it with 17 days off at 110 is doable and with 15 120.

 

[luvfan]

Seniority depends on, well it depends on seniority.

As an example, if you are a Captain hired in 1995 and your domicile is BWI or MDW your seniority is great.

If you are a 7-9 year SWA FO then BWI is pretty senior, it may be more senior than any other base except Orlando. I think Dallas, Baltimore, and Orlando are the most senior for this "slice" of the local seniority pie.

This will be an interesting aspect of the merger in my mind. I'm not a smart man but it seems like we will be saturating FO seniority on the East Coast.

-already MCO and BWI are senior on the FO side
-AAI guys live mostly on the Eastern Seaboard


SWA junior FO bases are OAK, LAS, PHX...

I know these are not specifics but I think the macro view of what will happen is easier to get seniority out west. Just $.02

Best of luck!

 

[puddlejumper101]

i have been bottom 20 percent in mco for a very long time and dont remember ever having trouble manipulating my schedule. 110 trips with 16 to 17 days off is easy. 120 trips with 15 to 16 days off is easy. premium time..not that easy. to get premium you need to be 50 percent or better. you can stil find it but it require some work. if you can live on 100 trips a month then you only need to work 12 days a month.

 

[bravodude]

I can answer a few of those questions. I don't have a list in front of me so the percentile stuff I don't know....sorry

Both mdw and Bwi are fairly junior. You'll probably have good seniority at both. We carry a very small amount of reserves so I feel safe in saying you'll have a good line. There are always trips in open time or people (lance captains giving away one and 2 days. Over the winter it's more of a challenge to get premium but not impossible. During the summer it is very easy no matter where you are on the list.

As for the bases if you are commuting I'd say mdw is better. There are a lot of crashpads all within easy walking distance. There are bars and places to eat very close by...even a place I think called Mr c's... may have been there a few times! Also decent hotel deals close by. In Bwi you either have to take the train or a cab to the pads. There are some good hotel deals though for commuters (La Quinta).

Sorry for the lack of info but I hope I helped a little bit...

MDW, BWI junior what r u smoking. I have been here a little over 4 years and I am 60% in vegas, But I would be holding a blank in mdw and bottom line in bwi.

As for the 115-120 I would say 14 days off is reasonable.

 

[luvfan]

yea he's the same guy who says oh you're a 69000, upgrading soon huh? how many years you been here?

Aptly named.

 

[frqntflyr]

That's weird it didn't go through. Anyway, in a nutshell I think that seniority has very little to do with the open time you can get except for low block 1 or 2 day trips during peak months. During the slow months it is almost impossible to get open time at premium bc sked uses reserves for the higher block trips and the rest goes either straight time or very senior premium. The key is (if you are senior to 8xxxx stop reading now....thanks) to get LEGAL. Hound ELITT for the ability to trade down your trips (you will learn about how this can work) and attempt to giveaway your entire line. You will find that with a bit of work you can give yourself a nice stretch of days off where you are legal for 3-4 day high block trips. Since few are legal for such trips, and since sked saves RSVs in the summer, they will dish out the premium. This of course requires some flexibility on your part, but 150+trip months are possible at almost any seniority that gets you off weekend RSV.

The other part of my PM was how our RSV blocks are formulated regarding assumed flight time. 4 day RSV blocks only count 5hr/day (so 20hrs) while smaller blocks count for 6hr/day. Therefore a 4 day RSV block is only 2hrs greater a legality hit than a 3 day. It is possible to find <10hr block 2 day trips on the slow months and back them up to a 4 day block. This makes you illegal for virtually all of our original 4 day pairings. Using this strategy you can pick up 2 two day trips leaving you with 11-12 days off. Odds are you will not work 3-4 days of RSV, usually more. In the end my months in the winter are about 100-115 TFP blocking less than 50hrs for the month. Of course this really only works if you live in base. This month I am at just over 100TFP and I worked 8 days. I'm off the rest of the month.

There are more nuances out there like picking up single day blocks RSV, bidding transition periods for legality, vacation drops for pay, etc...It wont take long to figure out. FWIW I'm in a very senior base and have learned over the years how to adjust to the economics of open time.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[dicko]

MDW, BWI junior what r u smoking. I have been here a little over 4 years and I am 60% in vegas, But I would be holding a blank in mdw and bottom line in bwi.

As for the 115-120 I would say 14 days off is reasonable.

Sounds like the myth of the SWA FO pay is a little over talked. No wonder you were all eating each other to upgrade. Where are all the guys with the big pay and TFP per month ?

AirTran 9 year Captains will be the same seniority as this guy and will now be a junior FO's in Vegas .... ? Making less, working more and commuting.

GFYS

 

[scoreboardII]

If you want the big block it's fairly easy.

Whats you current block hours to pay ratio/month? I think if you look deeper you'll the advantage.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Join a "Cartel", the senior guys hate those things, it circumvents their seniority!
KBB

 

[frqntflyr]

Sounds like the myth of the SWA FO pay is a little over talked. No wonder you were all eating each other to upgrade. Where are all the guys with the big pay and TFP per month ?

AirTran 9 year Captains will be the same seniority as this guy and will now be a junior FO's in Vegas .... ? Making less, working more and commuting.

GFYS

I tried to showcase some of the flexibility. No one ever said you will make 150TFP a month avg as a junior FO. At my 5 yr rate that would be $201,366. Yeah its possible, as bourbon said join a cartel and be sked's #%$. Otherwise you have the option to get those months in the summer, and decent months in the winter. 115+ AVG is very easy to do. That works out to $154,380 (again 5yr rate). Kind of what everyone here has been saying. I got an idea, why don't you put an old bid line up with pairing details and we can compare and contrast.

 

[Daddy]

Sounds like the myth of the SWA FO pay is a little over talked. No wonder you were all eating each other to upgrade. Where are all the guys with the big pay and TFP per month ?

AirTran 9 year Captains will be the same seniority as this guy and will now be a junior FO's in Vegas .... ? Making less, working more and commuting.

GFYS

No myth...but it totally depends on how you work the program. If you are not smart enough to clear your board, then you get to work for straight time all month. You also get stuck working for straight time if you are not flexible or are always jumping at trips and flying for them at straight time. It is not enough to just look at what's available in base, you have to look at other bases and the wx to see if the entire system is going to be short. Even in the most desperate times for the company there are still knuckleheads out there picking up at straight time and for less than 6.5 per day. It is hard to watch at times, but even in the thinnest month, there are great opportunities. As far as seniority goes, all you really need is a line which you get at < 10 percent off the bottom....trade everything and dont get married to any of it and you'll do fine. There are plenty of guys in the bottom 50% who average 170 tfp per month...of course you have to work 20+ days a month to do that.

 

[Tripower455]

No myth...but it totally depends on how you work the program. If you are not smart enough to clear your board, then you get to work for straight time all month. You also get stuck working for straight time if you are not flexible or are always jumping at trips and flying for them at straight time. It is not enough to just look at what's available in base, you have to look at other bases and the wx to see if the entire system is going to be short. Even in the most desperate times for the company there are still knuckleheads out there picking up at straight time and for less than 6.5 per day. It is hard to watch at times, but even in the thinnest month, there are great opportunities. As far as seniority goes, all you really need is a line which you get at < 10 percent off the bottom....trade everything and dont get married to any of it and you'll do fine. There are plenty of guys in the bottom 50% who average 170 tfp per month...of course you have to work 20+ days a month to do that.

Some of us have lives outside of work.

The old agage "a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush" describes the straight time flyers aptly.

I've gotten premium pay maybe 4-5 times in the nearly 16 years I've been here. I don't live in base, so the commute dictates my work schedule. I live and die by ELITT and TTGA (which is one of the reasons I had so much heartburn with TA1,2... DTC KILLS me). I average around 110-115 per month with 4 trips to the airport, usually done in 13-15 days worked. It used to be a lot better before DTC completely screwed the weekend flyers. For the first few years of ELITT, I would, every month, trade my 87-90tfp 12 day line to a 100+ 13 day line.

I've taken straight time at less than 6.5tfp a few times, but there were always other circumstances involved (starting or ending at commuter city etc.)

I've recently started to bid on open time, and at 40% of base seniority, I haven't been able to get a single trip. Even at straight time!

 

[flint4xx]

I just flew with a 78000'ish number guy and he has 160TFP this month.

 

[slaquer5]

Some of us have lives outside of work.

The old agage "a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush" describes the straight time flyers aptly.

I've gotten premium pay maybe 4-5 times in the nearly 16 years I've been here. I don't live in base, so the commute dictates my work schedule. I live and die by ELITT and TTGA (which is one of the reasons I had so much heartburn with TA1,2... DTC KILLS me). I average around 110-115 per month with 4 trips to the airport, usually done in 13-15 days worked. It used to be a lot better before DTC completely screwed the weekend flyers. For the first few years of ELITT, I would, every month, trade my 87-90tfp 12 day line to a 100+ 13 day line.

I've taken straight time at less than 6.5tfp a few times, but there were always other circumstances involved (starting or ending at commuter city etc.)

I've recently started to bid on open time, and at 40% of base seniority, I haven't been able to get a single trip. Even at straight time!

I did 115 trips this month w/ 9 days worked( no sick calls)


That is about average for me.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Ok. So I'm going to have to commute for the first time in six years. I live in ATL. If I wind up based in Las, around 86% seniority. How easy is it to trade and start trips on the east coast? Or if I go to BWI or MDW can I hold a line at that seniority. Looks like I have some research to do.

 

[dicko]

Join a "Cartel", the senior guys hate those things, it circumvents their seniority!
KBB

"The Tranny Cartel".

I like it. The name says; 'we're freaky and we're freaky'. My personal tattoo girl is already working on something special.

Does SWA frown on a full sleeve ?

 

[Tripower455]

I did 115 trips this month w/ 9 days worked( no sick calls)


That is about average for me.

Nice.......

 

[DougCorp-9]

I did 115 trips this month w/ 9 days worked( no sick calls)


That is about average for me.

What percentage are you in your seat and what base? Is that all premium flying?

 

[GuppyWN]

I'm in the bottom 1/4 on the Captain side and I'm at 130 this month with 12 days worked, or 18 days off. Almost all premium.

Work smart, not hard.

Gup

 

[saabcaptain]

I average 105 with 12-13 days worked. I pick up nothing and do a bit of ELITT trading as I like max QOL to be home with my wife and young kids. If I ever needed I could go 115+ without thinking about and most can. The crazy totals 150+ require detailed knowledge of our system and how to work it, living on the computer to bod/trade and no set schedule to pick up when best. No thanks.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

I averaged 130 a month last year, fourth year pay, Had planned to stop in August but then the contract was signed, I got the retro/Back pay, that made me hit the 401K max ($16500) and I kept going through the end of the year to put money into my remodel...I COMMUTE, I work much "Smarter" now, average 100 per month, work 11-13 days and spend time at home with my 5 year old. (Still hit the 401K cap in august 20th (I contribute 20%) so still got my "Self inflicted pay raise" and am much happier.)

Learn the system and it's much easier, for the first few months, it's gonna be super confusing and you'll be beating your head against the keyboard at the illegal messages (30/7, to many duty periods, etc) until you figure it out!

KBB

BTW, I can only hold weekend's due to my east coast "Seniority" and weekend trips average less pay in my opinion!

 

[shagadelic]

I'm in the bottom 1/4 on the Captain side and I'm at 130 this month with 12 days worked, or 18 days off. Almost all premium.

Work smart, not hard.

Gup

You suck. You must not commute. I fly over 120 a month on average...most of it the hard way. I don't work more than 14 a month though, normally.

 

[frqntflyr]

It should also be noted that there seems to be some seasonality in premium available to CA vs FO. Lately CA premium has been more prevalent than FO. It is also much easier to give away as a CA than as an FO due to the lances. Some bases have much more commuters than others which affects the way you can work your strategy. It wont take long to figure it all out. Good luck.

 

[vv100]

It should also be noted that there seems to be some seasonality in premium available to CA vs FO. Lately CA premium has been more prevalent than FO. It is also much easier to give away as a CA than as an FO due to the lances. Some bases have much more commuters than others which affects the way you can work your strategy. It wont take long to figure it all out. Good luck.

Thats because we are overmanned 200+ FO's

 

[seerickyfly]

This is gonna hit us 80,000 FO's based in MDW,BWI,and MCO in the shorts again. We keep taking it for "THE Company". I will be back to weekends, again. 5+yrs and counting.