ASA/XJT MEC conflict

[JoeMerchant]

A little birdie told me the joint ASA/XJT meeting in ATL didn't go so well...I'll let everyone take a guess on which MEC is being reasonable. I understand one MEC member was kicked out of the meeting and 1 MEC walked out.

 

[SuperKooter]

Deja vu,
back when asa was purchased the union guys acted the same way. They thought jerry was bluffing. The xj guys will soon learn jerry doesnt bluff he doesnt need to.

 

[pkunzip66]

Reasonable? Or being a huge push over and company man?!

 

[Freebrd]

reasonable? Or being a huge push over and company man?!

this!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

A little birdie told me the joint ASA/XJT meeting in ATL didn't go so well...I'll let everyone take a guess on which MEC is being reasonable. I understand one MEC member was kicked out of the meeting and 1 MEC walked out.

Looks like The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again!!!!!!!!!

 

[wms]

Deja vu,
back when asa was purchased the union guys acted the same way. They thought jerry was bluffing. The xj guys will soon learn jerry doesnt bluff he doesnt need to.

Jerry didn't bluff, and we got what we wanted. My guess is PBS will be gone, hopefully, and we will have a cnc that will fight and not bend over. There are major QOL improvements that need to be made at ASA. But don't worry the Skywest pilots will be able to coat- tail again.

 

[FishandFly]

Maybe the answer is one list and a new internal union.

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

Maybe Joe can get on his knees (again) and suck up to management like he always does. Thank God not all pilots are sell outs like Joe and actually demand a fair contract with concrete language not left intentionally vague with loopholes the size of the Grand Canyon to let Scheduling bend us over every chance they get. I would rather let the Sh!tbags at GoJet have all the flying at poverty rates before I'd give management the satisfaction of another swiss cheese screw job contract to "stay competitive"...

 

[AutoTransfer]

I would rather let the Sh!tbags at GoJet have all the flying at poverty rates before I'd give management the satisfaction of another swiss cheese screw job contract to "stay competitive"...

You may very well get your wish.

 

[boknowsASA]

maybe the answer is one list and a new internal union.

+1...

 

[Freebrd]

maybe the answer is one list and a new internal union.

-1.....

 

[Flyer1015]

+1 ?????? Are you #$%^#$% kidding? Have you not paid any attention to Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan's merger and our one-list?

 

[COOPERVANE]

+1 ?????? Are you #$%^#$% kidding? Have you not paid any attention to Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan's merger and our one-list?

dID yA'LL mERGE?

How'd Ya'll make out and such?

 

[aircombat]

+1 ?????? Are you #$%^#$% kidding? Have you not paid any attention to Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan's merger and our one-list?

have you not paid attention to Skywest growing while ASA furloughs. If there is going to be really bad news who do you think is going to get the brunt of it? I would rather have a rough merger than a whipsaw and attempts at becoming "more competitive" any day.

 

[waterskier]

Jerry will never let his baby (SKW) be tanted by the likes of XJT or ASA. Get past the one list ideas, and lets spend of barganing chips on more attainable things like QOL and Scheduling.
Another little birdy told me that SH came into the last negociation and told them that PBS WAS going to be in the next contract, dont even waste our time trying to get XJT line system. I know u XJT guys hate the thought of PBS, but the fact is MGMT will not sign a contract that doesnt include it.... Think he is tipping his hand a little by saying this... he is telling us how important PBS is to them, and thus we should use this to get some other things we want in the contract....

 

[Flyer1015]

dID yA'LL mERGE?

How'd Ya'll make out and such?

Yes we merged, one list, and 3 airlines becoming two. 1 airline will be jets only, the other props only. As for how one made out, it depends who you ask.

have you not paid attention to Skywest growing while ASA furloughs. If there is going to be really bad news who do you think is going to get the brunt of it? I would rather have a rough merger than a whipsaw and attempts at becoming "more competitive" any day.

ASA just furloughed pilots? This is news to me. How many have they furloughed, and when was this? And how is Skywest growing? Didn't they just lose 5 planes to GoJets?

 

[duc driver]

Just because you put PBS in a contract it does not mean I have to vote yes for it.

 

[captjim]

Just because you put PBS in a contract it does not mean I have to vote yes for it.

Amen Brother!

 

[FightingIrish]

Yes there was some serious disagreements at the meeting last week. There are 2 different issue.

The first is a big difference in what the 2 MECs think is achievable in this contract. XJT MEC has a "burn the house down" mentality and isn't being realistic.

The second issue is the seniority list integration. The instructor integration didn't go well. XJT again IMO was being unrealistic. ASA was willing to send it to arbitration.

There is much tension between the two MECs. I guess we are going to be like USAir/AWA or more recently Air Tran/SWA.

 

[princeton]

Yes there was some serious disagreements at the meeting last week. There are 2 different issue.

The first is a big difference in what the 2 MECs think is achievable in this contract. XJT MEC has a "burn the house down" mentality and isn't being realistic.

The second issue is the seniority list integration. The instructor integration didn't go well. XJT again IMO was being unrealistic. ASA was willing to send it to arbitration.

There is much tension between the two MECs. I guess we are going to be like USAir/AWA or more recently Air Tran/SWA.

So you are agreeing then that the ASA MEC are being pussies?

Look, the ASA pilots said that there is no way in Hell that management would give up the requirement that XJT check in at the airport. After a little conversation about how XJT pilots NEGOTIATED away the check-in requirement and a little arm twisting then POOF no check-in.

It's not burning down the house to fight for a decent QOL. Though many XJTers would agree that the flight instructors have been extremely well treated in the past at the expense of the average line pilot.

XJT has as many lifers as ASA, everyone wants the company to be viable.

 

[FightingIrish]

So you are agreeing then that the ASA MEC are being pussies?

No, I think the ASA MEC is being realistic. Being realistic and prudent isn't being a "*************************".

Look, the ASA pilots said that there is no way in Hell that management would give up the requirement that XJT check in at the airport. After a little conversation about how XJT pilots NEGOTIATED away the check-in requirement and a little arm twisting then POOF no check-in.

I never said you wouldn't win that argument. I'm very familiar with contract language and it was black and white. I personally don't think that will last however, and I don't see what the big deal is anyway. I like to print off my schedule when I come to work, so it isn't any big deal to me to click another button. Funny what you guys think is important.

It's not burning down the house to fight for a decent QOL.

The problem with your logic, or lack thereof, is that compared to other regionals that we compete with, our QOL is already better. In fact, your reserve rules are better than Delta's reserve rules.

XJT has as many lifers as ASA, everyone wants the company to be viable.

ASA has more and much more longevity. ASA also has watched Comair be decimated for their fight. Many of us aren't interested in becoming the next Comair.

 

[princeton]

Funny what you guys think is important.

That was my point. Something small like that should never have caused such a row. If the inept ASA management had understood the mentality here regarding check-in, which had been negotiated away fair and square, there would never had been a confrontation.

The problem with your logic, or lack thereof, is that compared to other regionals that we compete with, our QOL is already better. In fact, your reserve rules are better than Delta's reserve rules.

ASA has more and much more longevity. ASA also has watched Comair be decimated for their fight. Many of us aren't interested in becoming the next Comair.

And XJT is not interested in becoming the next Mesa, are you willing to sleep on the plane during a stand-up overnight? Where do YOU draw the line? Being cheap did NOT save Mesa from its fate. I think you guys have gotten fooled into the management ploy that cost is everything.

Most XJTers understand this and will vote no to any reduction in QOL and anything but a significant pay increase,. Otherwise, we will just keep what we have now and 90% will move on when the hiring at the majors start.

 

[waterskier]

I think many r starring to regret that WE BOUGHT U!
Should have just let XJT run it's course (Independence Air) & picked up the peaces after the implosion.
Now u guys r going to screw it up for all of us. Think u guys easily forget the path u were on before WE BOUGHT U! U should remember that.

 

[princeton]

I think many r starring to regret that WE BOUGHT U!
Should have just let XJT run it's course (Independence Air) & picked up the peaces after the implosion.
Now u guys r going to screw it up for all of us. Think u guys easily forget the path u were on before WE BOUGHT U! U should remember that.

So you work for Skywest INC.? They're the ones who bought XJT. ASA is just another name in the Skywest Inc. whipsaw arsenal and they're merging ASA into Expressjet and calling it something new. What's your point?

As far as I know, Skywest Inc. bought XJT to get the CAL flying plus an excellent operation and because we underbid Skywest on USair flying. CAL pushed it so that Skywest Inc. could start to fund 70 seaters, CAL was never going to let 99% of their regional feed "implode". The branded operation was shut down a while ago.

If Skywest Inc. miscalculated the cost, tough $hit. You bought a pilot group that will not give up QOL just to make a Skywest shareholder feel warm and fussy.

 

[FishandFly]

Jerry will never let his baby (SKW) be tanted by the likes of XJT or ASA. Get past the one list ideas, and lets spend of barganing chips on more attainable things like QOL and Scheduling.
Another little birdy told me that SH came into the last negociation and told them that PBS WAS going to be in the next contract, dont even waste our time trying to get XJT line system. I know u XJT guys hate the thought of PBS, but the fact is MGMT will not sign a contract that doesnt include it.... Think he is tipping his hand a little by saying this... he is telling us how important PBS is to them, and thus we should use this to get some other things we want in the contract....

Being close minded to the absolute best case scenario for our long term viability and your career here is asinine.

I think there should be..

1. A petition of all pilots willing to completely reinvent this multi-airline debacle into one streamlined pilot group.

2. Delivery of said petition to J.A. with a request to consider the proposal.

3. A consistent message and opinion held by the pilot groups even if J.A. blows us off.

 

[waterskier]

We all do work for Skywest now. My point is that before we bought u we seemed to be doing fine. Now because of the militant, over reaching XJT pilots & their contract, we r in for a huge fight with management. Im no company man, but i am infavor of being reasionable, and finding ground with mgnt that benefits both groups. It is my experience in talking with XJT pilots that they have been screwed over for so long by ur old mgnt, that u now want to take it out on ASA/ SKW. I really think that XJT guys should be a little more humble, and remember the path u were on with ur old mgnt & contract, & work better with the ASA MEC to get a more fair contract.
Don't kid yourself, ASA/SKW did not buy u for ur excellent opperation.... They needed to buy someone for lots of reasons, & u guys had the right mainline partners.... The pilots, contract, & the operations were not considered a benefit of the transaction.

 

[princeton]

. The pilots, contract, & the operations were not considered a benefit of the transaction.

So either you're saying that the Skywest Inc.'s shareholders were lied to, or you're just making $hit up :

“We are extremely pleased to reach this definitive merger agreement with ExpressJet and look forward to the consummation of the transaction,” said Bradford R. Rich, SkyWest, Inc.’s Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. “We also look forward to the integration of these two successful airlines and employee work groups and hope to create integration benefits that will solidify the long-term future of each of these airlines in a very competitive industry,” he continued.

Why ExpressJet, Rich was asked. “First, it was made possible because of the quality of the operations and the dedication of its front line employees,” he said. “There is no way this transaction is a fixer upper from an operational standpoint. This is a highly respected, high quality operation and it fits with our quality commitment at ASA and SkyWest. This is an important day in history of the company.

 

[Flyerdan]

Jerry didn't bluff, and we got what we wanted. My guess is PBS will be gone, hopefully, and we will have a cnc that will fight and not bend over. There are major QOL improvements that need to be made at ASA. But don't worry the Skywest pilots will be able to coat- tail again.

That is awesome, thanks! While we're at it, is there any way that you guys could hold out until they agree to get rid of PBS here at Skywest as well? That would be great!

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Another little birdy told me that SH came into the last negociation and told them that PBS WAS going to be in the next contract, dont even waste our time trying to get XJT line system. I know u XJT guys hate the thought of PBS, but the fact is MGMT will not sign a contract that doesnt include it.... Think he is tipping his hand a little by saying this... he is telling us how important PBS is to them, and thus we should use this to get some other things we want in the contract....

SH is telling every recurrent class out there that he wants PBS gone yesterday. I really hope our negotiators are smart enough to realize this is smoke and mirrors again.

Either make PBS work for us with better pairing controls/min credits, or take us back to line bidding with better pairing controls/vacation low type deal/min credit increases/staffing level mins with triggers that boost pay by a designated margin should they choose to run lean.

 

[wms]

If xe doesn't check in then I won't either. Our mec has always been too accommodating and its nice to see some fortitude. I have a list of 15 items that are nogos for me. If ASA mec won't fight for them maybe xe mec will.