Southwest and shortcuts...

[BillJBrake]

Do you guys get paid for the total amount of shortcuts you can get, per leg?

It seems like every Southwest plane, on every frequency, checks on and asks for a shortcut. Even if the previous controller had just given him one, or the frequency is obviously congested and the controller is busy, you can count on the Southwest pilots to ask for shortcuts. I love it when the controller straight up, turn them down!

Knock it off...it's ok to ask for one here or there, or every so often, but on EVERY FLIGHT, and EVERY FREQUENCY? I feel like they're becoming known as the needy bunch...

 

[OakRBust]

I think perhaps the jet fumes are getting to you.

 

[seven3seven]

I'll be sure to ask for several tomorrow

 

[GuppyWN]

If I got direct destination I'd not ask again!

Gup

 

[ATRCAPT]

Do you guys get paid for the total amount of shortcuts you can get, per leg?

It seems like every Southwest plane, on every frequency, checks on and asks for a shortcut. Even if the previous controller had just given him one, or the frequency is obviously congested and the controller is busy, you can count on the Southwest pilots to ask for shortcuts. I love it when the controller straight up, turn them down!

Knock it off...it's ok to ask for one here or there, or every so often, but on EVERY FLIGHT, and EVERY FREQUENCY? I feel like they're becoming known as the needy bunch...

Dude, really? What the he!! do you care? You fly your airplanes, and we'll fly ours, how about that? Oh, and we'll make an a$$ load of money flying ours...moron.

 

[BillJBrake]

lol. respectfully written thread, 4 rude responses!

you guys represent the pilot group well!

 

[HighSpeed]

You say "knock it off" and you think it was respectfully written??

Ok Dad - we'll knock it off...

 

[satpak77]

idiot.

 

[scoreboardII]

Do you guys get paid for the total amount of shortcuts you can get, per leg?

It seems like every Southwest plane, on every frequency, checks on and asks for a shortcut. Even if the previous controller had just given him one, or the frequency is obviously congested and the controller is busy, you can count on the Southwest pilots to ask for shortcuts. I love it when the controller straight up, turn them down!

Knock it off...it's ok to ask for one here or there, or every so often, but on EVERY FLIGHT, and EVERY FREQUENCY? I feel like they're becoming known as the needy bunch...

calling us needy, not very respectful youngster. Here's a respectful response: long after your airline is bankrupt and you are working as an assistant manager at Arby's, we will still be asking for shortcuts on every frequency to save time and gas. Saving time allows us to fly another day to make more money. Saving gas allows our company to undercut your company, which allows us to make more money.

 

[satpak77]

same moron was giving out ATC FAA hiring advice months ago. He averages one to two posts a month, probably on his one day of computer access at the local juvenile mental health ward.

we will see him again mid-October.

 

[Zdriver]

to save 20 sec on our flight...

economies of scale.. 20 sec * 3300 flights a day = 66,000 seconds aka 1100 minutes or 18 hours 15 minutes at day at ~4400llbs/hr = ~80,700llbs or 11,500 gallons a day or about 4 1/4 million gallons a year.. which depending on fuel prices is worth about $10 million dollers for my company....

all this just from taking a few seconds to ask for a shortcut.... ummm.. hell yea!!!!

 

[BillJBrake]

I'd understand the time savings....*IF* it were always true.

But how about on a transcon when 3 airlines on the same city pairing are going on a COMPLETELY different route to stay out of headwinds, meanwhile the southwest guy begs for direct to the initial fix on the arrival and *GETS* it....I'm pretty sure that'll INCREASE their flight time going right into the winds, vs the guy who stays on his optimum route filed to keep him away from the stronger headwinds.

 

[BillJBrake]

idiot.

still frustrated that I had rather accurate and helpful info on ATC hiring and pay rates? I'm sorry, that's unfortunate.

I'm sure it frustrates you to think the information can come from someone who's profile screams "line boy"! Don't worry satpak, you'll figure out life one day!!

 

[SKC]

I'd understand the time savings....*IF* it were always true.

But how about on a transcon when 3 airlines on the same city pairing are going on a COMPLETELY different route to stay out of headwinds, meanwhile the southwest guy begs for direct to the initial fix on the arrival and *GETS* it....I'm pretty sure that'll INCREASE their flight time going right into the winds, vs the guy who stays on his optimum route filed to keep him away from the stronger headwinds.

I've been at three carriers and had crews do that at all three. It's not just SWA.

 

[Flycatcher99]

It's your kind of mentality that has resulted in stupid unnecessary inefficiencies that result in airlines floundering. Your mgmt must be proud.

As for us SWA guys "begging" for shortcuts, that's quite a bit of hyperbole. Asking once is not begging. And btw, we get the shortcut easily 80% of the time, so it must not be a problem. Have fun taking the long route. (I'm sure your cockpit-mate finds you to be a real joy on those extra minutes in the air.)

 

[GuppyWN]

I'd understand the time savings....*IF* it were always true.

But how about on a transcon when 3 airlines on the same city pairing are going on a COMPLETELY different route to stay out of headwinds, meanwhile the southwest guy begs for direct to the initial fix on the arrival and *GETS* it....I'm pretty sure that'll INCREASE their flight time going right into the winds, vs the guy who stays on his optimum route filed to keep him away from the stronger headwinds.

Bill,

Our FMC has climb, enroute and descent winds. We know before we ask if a shortcut will save/cost us time/fuel.

As the other guy said - seconds are seconds.

Gup

 

[shootr]

Guppy beat me to it. We KNOW the best wind routes. GENERALLY we're not too stupid to stay on that route if it's the best savings in fuel. Time has virtually no meaning to most of us. It's all about saving fuel and increasing profits. Don't like it? Too bad...

 

[Skyboy722]

I'd understand the time savings....*IF* it were always true.

But how about on a transcon when 3 airlines on the same city pairing are going on a COMPLETELY different route to stay out of headwinds, meanwhile the southwest guy begs for direct to the initial fix on the arrival and *GETS* it....I'm pretty sure that'll INCREASE their flight time going right into the winds, vs the guy who stays on his optimum route filed to keep him away from the stronger headwinds.

Bill,

We're all well aware of our best wind route, and in your scenario, we wouldn't ask in the first place. Any pilot worth his/her salt is aware of this stuff.

We're not amatuers.

 

[Skybus]

lol. respectfully written thread, 4 rude responses!

you guys represent the pilot group well!

"respectful"?? Perhaps you should reread your original post. And BTW may I respectfully ask you to STFU.

Bus

 

[luvfan]

Dear Bill

The short answer to your question is yes. We get paid by shortcut.

My nextdoor neighbor (AA for 20+ years) was totally confused by how/why/what we get paid but after living next to him a few years he had an epiphany and he realized wow. Mutually beneficial to the company and the pilots and you guys can make more money.

This is because we get paid per mile we are supposed to fly. But if we fly less miles/time we still get paid per mile we were supposed to fly. And if we cut off time with fast taxi or shorter (non-active runway) taxi we can make ourselves legal to fly more and make more money (oftentimes at premium pay). Again, mutually beneficial to the company and the pilots.

This is a hard thing to wrap your head around but the bottom line is that greed makes SWA go. We have pilots who average 200 trips a month. And we have pilots who fly well less than 80 trips a month. Flexibility to do the extremes or something in between. But getting paid by the trip is incentive to help the company (and not slow down).

Hope this wasn't disrespectful.

Cheers.