SWA/AAI Time to step away from the forum

[GhettoBeechjet]

The forums in the last few days have hit a new low. I think its fair to say that we are all frustrated with the situation but there is no need to resort to personal attacks. The situation as I see it is that we are at an impasse.

AAI ALPA says they want something better than the now dead proposal.

SWAPA says they will not accept any negotiated agreement that harms the SWAPA pilots career paths. They also say the now dead agreement was as far as they can go and meet that endcap.

This is a classic impasse. Both sides are at or beyond their last negoitiating point. The process agreement lays out what will happen next. Both sides will continue to follow that agreement. The officials on both sides have committed to that and to live with the outcome of an arbitrated list if an agreement can't be reached.

SWA desires a negotiated agreement and labor peace. What measures they are willing to take to achieve that very few know. I would HIGHLY doubt any of those people read, post on, or have even heard of Flightinfo.

I believe that there are 5 possible outcomes to this stalemate. 4 out of 5 are decided by non pilots and 4 out of 5 involve a loss to someone.

1. Miracle happens and an agreement that everyone can live with is found

2. AAI pilots become concerned that Gary is serious when he talks about non integration and accept something like SL9 without the sweetners. AAI pilots lose.

3. Arbitrated list more favorable to AAI than SL9. SWAPA pilots lose.

4. Arbitrated list that looks a lot like SL9 without the sweetners. AAI pilots lose.

5. Gary for whatever reason decides to fragment the AAI operation. Many AAI employees lose.



Odds are the outcome is going to be in the hands of the CEO or the arbitrators. Odds are someone loses. The only question is who and how much.

It sucks that it has come to this. I hope that no one on either side would gain pleasure from someone elses misfortune. There is nothing left to discuss here unless an agreement is reached. The personal attacks and rhetoric on here don't change the above facts or anyones mind. It just adds stress to peoples lives and reflects poorly on us. Given that I think we should all give this a rest and hope for the best for all involved.


Respectfully,
GhettoBeechjet

 

[redflyer65]

Ghetto,

I agree. My prediction is this..

Impasse right now. Won't change with direct talks or even in mediation. (What's to give from both sides?)

Arbitration. The outcome is unknown and I think Gary will go with fragmentation and no list integration in this scenerio. This is the worst outcome for the AAI guys, but unfortunately I see it headed down this road. The one, best offer was turned down and there definitely won't be anything better offered.

I hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't look good at this point.

RF

 

[Roomwithaview]

Dude you are way off base. SL9 was a total loser for SWA pilots. It would never have passed our membership. Anything close to SL9 is a total WIN for the AAI pilots and total loss for SWA pilots. Gimme some of that blunt!
imp:

 

[Tripower455]

Actually, the only one of your points in which the AAI pilots lose is #5........ In all the others, they gain. It's just a question of how much, and at what loss to us.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Ghetto,

I agree. My prediction is this..

Impasse right now. Won't change with direct talks or even in mediation. (What's to give from both sides?)

Arbitration. The outcome is unknown and I think Gary will go with fragmentation and no list integration in this scenerio. This is the worst outcome for the AAI guys, but unfortunately I see it headed down this road. The one, best offer was turned down and there definitely won't be anything better offered.

I hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't look good at this point.


RF

Red most AAI pilots predict that it will go to arbitration be favorable to them and be implemented. What purpose does it serve to keep making predictions? I think BOTH SIDES SHOULD STOP WITH THE PREDICTIONS. It doesn't change the outcome. It only pisses people off and starts the argument again.

Repectfully,
GhettoBeechjet

 

[redflyer65]

Just throwing out my 2 cents. There are limited outcomes that are left. I'll sit by and see how it plays out...which is pretty much all we can do at this point.

RF

 

[Roomwithaview]

Gbj

Red most AAI pilots predict that it will go to arbitration be favorable to them and be implemented. What purpose does it serve to keep making predictions? I think BOTH SIDES SHOULD STOP WITH THE PREDICTIONS. It doesn't change the outcome. It only pisses people off and starts the argument again.

Got it! So stop making predictions except for the one above that you keep repeating over and over again.

Here's a prediction. AAI's MEC keeps making it harder and harder for GK to integrate and they will achieve that goal.

 

[redflyer65]

AAI's MEC keeps making it harder and harder for GK to integrate and they will achieve that goal.

Agree 100%.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Got it! So stop making predictions except for the one above that you keep repeating over and over again.

Here's a prediction. AAI's MEC keeps making it harder and harder for GK to integrate and they will achieve that goal.

I was just stating their prediction. I have no idea how this ends.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Red most AAI pilots predict that it will go to arbitration be favorable to them and be implemented.

Not only AirTran guys predicted that, but also, GK when he talked to SWAPA early last week, BJ when he was in ATL crew room, both legal teams for ALPA and SWAPA, and pilots of all other airlines.
Only SC and the 5%ers are convinced otherwise.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Not only AirTran guys predicted that, but also, GK when he talked to SWAPA early last week, BJ when he was in ATL crew room, both legal teams for ALPA and SWAPA, and pilots of all other airlines.
Only SC and the 5%ers are convinced otherwise.

First your statement is factually inaccurate. Unless you are on the SWAPA BOD or NC you don't know what GK and SWAPA discussed. Also again unless you are on the SWAPA NC or BOD you have not been briefed by the SWAPA legal team so you don't know what their opinion is. Third have you talked to at least one pilot from every single airline that agreed with your opinion? Because thats what you stated.

What are you trying to accomplish? Truth is no one knows with how this will end and its out of our hands anyway. Why keep posting this stuff when it has zero effect on the outcome? Statements like yours just upset people. Please reread the first post and intent of the thread.

 

[On Your Six]

Dude you are way off base. SL9 was a total loser for SWA pilots. It would never have passed our membership. Anything close to SL9 is a total WIN for the AAI pilots and total loss for SWA pilots. Gimme some of that blunt!
imp:

What's great is that you won't be able to vote for the arbitration award. It will be handed to you. Too bad someone offered such a turd to begin with. Welcome to mergers. Godspeed!


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Got it! So stop making predictions except for the one above that you keep repeating over and over again.

Here's a prediction. AAI's MEC keeps making it harder and harder for GK to integrate and they will achieve that goal.

Other groups probably will make it easy, like the flight attendants and ground people. They want the double pay now. But, most of them aren't losing seniority (except the flight attendants that get bumped out of ATL). Your integration has already started, with departments moving from ATL to DAL already. You just never know, but someone may eventually just say "it's binding arbitration. Sorry, just deal with it."


OYS

 

[redflyer65]

OYS,

Clueless as usual. Let me update you...

The mechanics are at odds. Walked away from the table.

The FA's at SW won't take any attitude from the AAI FA's. (possibly the most militant union at SW)

Dispatchers? Good luck.

Even the training instructors are at odds. AAI is demanding DOH from their pilot dates. SW instructors start over when they enter the training center.

So as you can see with fairly accurate information, the intergration is not looking good. The AAI pilots are just the beginning. I guarantee you that Gary is taking notice. If the pilot list is going south, he probably will just pull the plug. Would you want to deal with the rest?

 

[On Your Six]

OYS,

Clueless as usual. Let me update you...

The mechanics are at odds. Walked away from the table.

The FA's at SW won't take any attitude from the AAI FA's. (possibly the most militant union at SW)

Dispatchers? Good luck.

Even the training instructors are at odds. AAI is demanding DOH from their pilot dates. SW instructors start over when they enter the training center.

So as you can see with fairly accurate information, the intergration is not looking good. The AAI pilots are just the beginning. I guarantee you that Gary is taking notice. If the pilot list is going south, he probably will just pull the plug. Would you want to deal with the rest?

Clueless as usual? Not when it came to the arbitration issue. I have been pointing that out for the last 3 months. I knew it could come to this. You guys stated the AT guys would take the money, and I guess their MEC thinks the junior guys could get screwed. As far as the other employees, they will probably give in if they get a bit more, but that isn't the case it seems for the pilots, and that is something now you have to worry about. It will be interesting to watch.

Godspeed my friend.


OYS

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Only on Flightinfo could even this thread turn ugly. Seems like some on both sides plus some outside folks just thrive on adding fear and stress to others lives.

 

[redflyer65]

As far as the other employees, they will probably give in if they get a bit more
OYS

Thanks for proving my point. Thank You. Haha.

 

[On Your Six]

Thanks for proving my point. Thank You. Haha.

The ones without seniority issues, yeah, they will probably get a bit more. You need to worry about the pilots, though. That's the point.


Godspeed RED.


OYS

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Bump

Less than 2 hours since this thread dropped off page one and the forum gets ugly again.

 

[becket]

You forgot option 6.

Federal court seeking a restraining order/injunction against SWA for mcCaskill/bond violations.