Airtran may not give up

[400ADude]

Right there with ya'.

While the CRJ wasn't as much fun as a Lear or the 727, I'd say it was just as fun to fly as the 717 is.

If we got CRJ's and if the money in the left seat of the CRJ were the same as what our AAI CA's make now with the same schedules and work rules,,,

Oh god..........

 

[400ADude]

I hope it doesn't go through . . . . there is no way I could allow that absolute management putz Steve S#@#&@nsk! be senior to me . . . .

I think we should just walk away, let the stock tank, and in 4 or 5 years, they'll be coming to us . . . .


.

Priceless.:bawling::bawling::bawling:

 

[Ty Webb]

That post is taken out of context.

The comments you posted were made after the Midex Pilot Group came out in the media against the merger. . . . . they treated it as a "hostile takeover" in their statements and press releases. I'm sure if the AAI did the same thing towards SWA, you'd be saying something similar to what I did, too . . . . . . . but we're not.

We, the AAI pilors, are completely supportive of this merger, we just want a fair SLI.

Since you brought it up the AAI/MEH thing, most AAI guys were saying that the Midex integration would likely go relative seniority, and no one was griping.

Here's what I said when the merger was announced. Note that I was willing to give Midex guys relative seniority, even you, 400Ahole:

We do have representation, and a pretty sizable M/A contingency fund. If our goal was to wrest something out of it that was more than we should receive (ie, a staple) we have the horsepower to do it . . . . . but is it the right thing to do?

I don't think so. There is a precedent, from the Valujet/AirTran merger, which followed the Allegheny/Mohawk precedent. It will likely be relative seniority, with fences.

See it for yourself:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=1208002&postcount=23

 

[71driver]

Excellent re-post!

I remember we (the Airtran Pilots) were all going through the mental exercise on how we would integrate the Med-ex guys. We were not looking to fluck those guys, we weren't trying to see how many applied to AT, there was no mention of stapling.
In fact I couldn't and didn't find any Airtran Pilot that wasn't looking to be fair.

Thanks for reminding me. Like I needed more reasons (sarcasm) to confirm how BAD that last offer was from SWAPA!

 

[On Your Six]

Priceless.:bawling::bawling::bawling:

Yes, but this time AT may WIN. If they get anything better than the first offer, it is a win. And, they could get a huge win at that. Godspeed!


OYS

 

[Beechdriver32]

OYS-

Pretty fast and loose with your 'may' and 'if' and 'could'.

Easy to say when it's not your carreer.

Especially when your real hope is for the ultimate FAIL of Swa.

Oh, wait, all you care is about 'fair'. I forgot.

 

[laker4284]

I'm still having trouble understanding why Air Tran guys, who are getting a major bump in pay, bennies and job security also think they should max out on seniority too. By definition, that's a windfall for a single group. Why, particularly when that group is with the arguably poorer and weaker company, is that appropriate? I think that is why the SWAPA peeps are so peeved.

How do justify that?

 

[Roomwithaview]

One word:

How do justify that?

GREED

 

[71driver]

OYS

Yes we'll do much, much better in arbitration and I'm pretty sure that's where we'll end up.
Some SWA FI posters keep beating the same old drum about pay benefits job security, etc. ALL those things we had with MED EX gents BUT we were NEVER under the mindset to use that to exploit the MED EX guys, that's called integrity for those of you unfamaliar with that term.
But as I have seen many of you SWA regulars will still cry fowl ,and will somehow manipulate this post to say it doesn't apply to you.

 

[Ty Webb]

I'm still having trouble understanding why Air Tran guys, who are getting a major bump in pay, bennies and job security also think they should max out on seniority too.

"max out on seniority"? You do realize that the proposed list had most of us losing 30 percent of our seniority, right? I would have been mixed in with guys hired almost four years later. That's negative seniority, not maxing out on seniority.

By definition, that's a windfall for a single group. Why, particularly when that group is with the arguably poorer and weaker company, is that appropriate? I think that is why the SWAPA peeps are so peeved.

How do justify that?

A "windfall" , in regards to SLI, is defined as the "taking of something from one group and giving it to the other". So, paying the AAI pilots the going rates at SWA is not a windfall, not in the legal sense. You could say it is an improvement.

You should be aware, too, that SWA plans to reduce our main domicile by over half. That means that the ATL fences and protections would not benefit half of the pilots.

Meanwhile, the displaced half would have been stripped of four years' seniority, effectively stapled to the bottom of our seat's list, where we would remain for most of the decade, until we started acquiring seniority again.

The issue here is seniority, not money. We only want to keep our seniority, not take away any SWA pilot's seniority. How you determine that makes us greedy is beyond me, but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Ty,

Really? You are starting to unravel

A "windfall" , in regards to SLI, is defined as the "taking of something from one group and giving it to the other". So, paying the AAI pilots the going rates at SWA is not a windfall, not in the legal sense. You could say it is an improvement.

Good luck with that argument in arbitration. I hope you guys have something better than that to hang your silly a%% Alan Jackson hat on.

You should be aware, too, that SWA plans to reduce our main domicile by over half

Totally aware of that. That's why the AIP was such a huge WINDFALL for you guys. Yet, you still turned it down. STUNNING!!

Guess what? That reduction is still coming. What are your protections now?

That means that the ATL fences and protections would not benefit half of the pilots.

That's why your MEC did what ALPA always does. Divvied up the protection to the Captains. Not just the pre-9/27/10 captains but even the ones you padded the list with post acquisition. Those captain retention slots are GONE (thank gawd!!) Just like all the goodies in the AIP

Meanwhile, the displaced half would have been stripped of four years' seniority, where we would remain for most of the decade, until we started acquiring seniority again.

The bottom of the list gets what the bottom can hold. The good news is that you were being HANDSOMELY rewarded for getting the opportunity of a lifetime. You keep trying to make it sound like you guys are being dragged over here kicking and screaming all the way. It makes for great drama just like reality TV. Unfortunately, that too is fake. Sorry to burst your bubble.

The issue here is seniority, not money. We only want to keep our seniority, not take away any SWA pilot's seniority. How you determine that makes us greedy is beyond me, but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Nice try. It's about everything and everything will be argued and considered no matter how much you try to say it won't. Arbitrators aren't as stupid and naive as you make them out to be. Neither are SWA pilots and I venture to guess the majority of AAI pilots aren't as well. That's why your MEC cratered the deal because they are GREEDY and they want it all. Just like Steve Chase pointed out.

 

[GoodTimes]

"We only want to keep our seniority, not take away any SWA pilot's seniority."


The numbers don't lie. More gains on your side does, in fact, take away SWA pilot seniority as the years go by.

I say again....your group is younger and our group has more retirements. Your solution would see a list that's top-heavy with AAI peeps 10,15,20 years down the road.

There's no more to give, Ty.

 

[CaptWidgeon]

I'm still having trouble understanding why Air Tran guys, who are getting a major bump in pay, bennies and job security also think they should max out on seniority too. By definition, that's a windfall for a single group. Why, particularly when that group is with the arguably poorer and weaker company, is that appropriate? I think that is why the SWAPA peeps are so peeved.

How do justify that?

"max out on seniority"? You do realize that the proposed list had most of us losing 30 percent of our seniority, right? I would have been mixed in with guys hired almost four years later. That's negative seniority, not maxing out on seniority.

on the day of signing aai will get all of the above of what laker mentioned, what does a swa pilot get? what is the gain of a swa pilot that is exclusive to them? laker mentioned much of what aai gets with a signature.

 

[On Your Six]

I'm still having trouble understanding why Air Tran guys, who are getting a major bump in pay, bennies and job security also think they should max out on seniority too. By definition, that's a windfall for a single group. Why, particularly when that group is with the arguably poorer and weaker company, is that appropriate? I think that is why the SWAPA peeps are so peeved.

How do justify that?

The arbitrators usually don't include pay and benefits because those can vanish in the next downturn. But, seniority is forever, and they take that seriously. If it happens, they will look at what each side brings to the table, not pay, and AT actually does bring a lot. That could be why many Corndogs are nervous.

Godspeed!


OYS

 

[Ty Webb]

Room with a view-

I tried to answer your questions in a straightforward manner. The definition of windfall is right out of Allegheny-Mohawk. You don't seem to be very well-informed, you're basically just spewing anger and "taking points".

It's clear that discussing this subject with you is just giving you an opportunity to vent your bitterness, frustration and bile.

Count me out.

 

[luvfan]

Crazy

The money SWA is using to buy AirTran was created by profits. Those profits were made possible by employees who gave customers a product and service that was safe, reliable, and good value. Productivity by their employees, decisions made by management, and positive attitudes observed by customers. This led to profitability for 40+ years. SWA is buying AirTran. Not the other way around.

SWA is 35000+ employees. They were hired after they made it through an interview process designed to weed out potential employees with $hitty attitudes. The employees of Southwest are happy to work at a place where their jobs are secure and the benefits (including the fun work environment) are fantastic.

Hopefully this will continue and be the case for a long time.

 

[Ty Webb]

Luvfan-

What was bought by SWA was built by AAI employees . . . . it's the same argument.

While I'm sure that being hired by SWA is a gret source of personal pride and self-worth for you, be sure to ask your management how AAI pilots stack up in terms of Safety, Performance, Efficiency and Customer Service. . . . . You may be surprised. Very surprised.

Regards,

TW

 

[Roomwithaview]

Ty

I tried to answer your questions in a straightforward manner. The definition of windfall is right out of Allegheny-Mohawk. You don't seem to be very well-informed,

That my friend is your opinion. How about listing the SWAPA gains vs AAI gains. I've read AGM, BM and numerous awards. Find me one that fits this scenario exactly. Also, read Mr. Nicolau's words about each and every situation being different and having to stand on its own merits. You're calling what you consider to be your opinion. I'm telling you mine. Sorry it doesn't sit well with you.

you're basically just spewing anger and "taking points".

What was it that hurt your feelings? My Alan Jackson Hat comment? Sorry. It's amazing how you AAI guys have this sixth sense that allows you to detect emotion from the written word. Not the first one here to claim that extra sensory ability. No anger here. Nothing but love in my heart for you and your MEC. You saved me and the other no voters from having to beat that turd down. Thank you, Thank you THANK YOU!! Again, from the bottom of my heart. And, if I haven't reminded you lately, Keep Pushing for ALL YOU CAN GET!! You guys are so worth it.

It's clear that discussing this subject with you is just giving you an opportunity to vent your bitterness, frustration and bile.

Once again, there's that extra sensory that only an AAI guy can have!. It allows you to know exactly what an arbitrator will decide, what others are thinking, emotions from a keyboard thousands of miles away. I really did go to the wrong airline. I should have scabbed at Eastern back in 87 and gotten that job at Valuetran. I guess pointing out facts like that makes me full of anger and bile. Right Ty-Ty?

 

[Ty Webb]

Sorry, man, but your posts are just meant to provoke AAI pilots. They have no facts, just barbs and insults. . . . Nothing worth responding to.

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[luvfan]

Tw

How many AAI pilots had resumes on file at the SWA people department?

How many SWA pilots applied to work for AirTran?

The day Gary Kelly announced the acquisition you won the lottery twice over. You guys worked hard and got $hitty pay and benefits. I'm happy for you. When you get over here on our CBA you will be happy trust me.