Airtran may not give up

[newnan]

Fornaro said FL will grow MKE with bigger RJ's??????? along with 71's and 73's

What would those RJ's be?

He just said they haven't given up on RJ's yet, just in ATL, when asked about FL's previous agreement with Air Wisconsin.

 

[Eagle757shark]

Fornaro said FL will grow MKE with bigger RJ's??????? along with 71's and 73's

What would those RJ's be?

He just said they haven't given up on RJ's yet, just in ATL, when asked about FL's previous agreement with Air Wisconsin.

Good question! That is why it is important for the NPA to get a solid contract that address' scope, and merger protections. More than just pay, I will be evaluating the language of any new contract very closely. The grey areas for bad interpretation must be cleared up.

 

[TV9Driver]

i didn't say that Bob F. said they would GROW MKE with RJ's. He said that unlike ATL, MKE is a suitable place for them - no gate restraints. Geesh...

And since he said the 50 seat RJ won't work with our fare structure, I was interpreting that to meant larger 70 - 90 seat Rjs...

 

[FlyWolf]

Well, he said (Bigger RJ's), so it must be bigger than 50 seat, wonder if Airtran is going the Jetblue way with the E190's????

 

[Citrus531]

Saw in our company "a-line" report yesterday that we're about 2 years away from having to make another fleet decision. With the 717's being on 18-year leases and 60 more 737-700's coming, the next derivitive of the 737(with the compostie materials like the 787) is being looked at. Joe L. said that while a 717 replacement would be considered Boeing would probably give us a "killer" deal on them as leases start expiring. Kinda like Delta and those MD-88's..we have so many and are basically the only carrier to fly them....if we dump 100+ 717's(assuming the midwest deal) who else would take them?

But then again our oldest 717 is 8 years old so that's still another 10 years.

 

[Eagle757shark]

Well, he said (Bigger RJ's), so it must be bigger than 50 seat, wonder if Airtran is going the Jetblue way with the E190's????

Hey FlyWolf, if the merger does happen, doesn't matter E190s or E170s as long as the airplanes are flown by AirTran Airways' pilots(merged). ABSOLUTELY NO CONTRACTING OUT THESE AIRCRAFT TO ANYONE! The one thing I liked about what JetBlue did was they kept the E190 on their property. Hopefully they can negotiate better pay in the future. But the key is, JetBlue pilots are flying the E190s not a contract carrier. UNIONS PLEASE LEARN this lesson in your negotiations. If the equipment is good for the business, let our pilots fly them and negotiate a rate that will allow the airline to earn money. This is the only way we are going to STOP this contracting out to the lowest bidder and watch our jobs go away. It also increases hiring opportunities for all!

 

[FlyWolf]

Hey FlyWolf, if the merger does happen, doesn't matter E190s or E170s as long as the airplanes are flown by AirTran Airways' pilots(merged). ABSOLUTELY NO CONTRACTING OUT THESE AIRCRAFT TO ANYONE! The one thing I liked about what JetBlue did was they kept the E190 on their property. Hopefully they can negotiate better pay in the future. But the key is, JetBlue pilots are flying the E190s not a contract carrier. UNIONS PLEASE LEARN this lesson in your negotiations. If the equipment is good for the business, let our pilots fly them and negotiate a rate that will allow the airline to earn money. This is the only way we are going to STOP this contracting out to the lowest bidder and watch our jobs go away. It also increases hiring opportunities for all!

Well said Eagle, I agree with you 300%.

 

[AAflyer]

Hey FlyWolf, if the merger does happen, doesn't matter E190s or E170s as long as the airplanes are flown by AirTran Airways' pilots(merged). ABSOLUTELY NO CONTRACTING OUT THESE AIRCRAFT TO ANYONE! The one thing I liked about what JetBlue did was they kept the E190 on their property. Hopefully they can negotiate better pay in the future. But the key is, JetBlue pilots are flying the E190s not a contract carrier. UNIONS PLEASE LEARN this lesson in your negotiations. If the equipment is good for the business, let our pilots fly them and negotiate a rate that will allow the airline to earn money. This is the only way we are going to STOP this contracting out to the lowest bidder and watch our jobs go away. It also increases hiring opportunities for all!

Well,

The E-190 is not a reginal aircraft. While I applaud Jetblue for doing this, I have yet to see CAL, UAL, DAL, or AA farm out (100 seat flying) ie F-100, B737 type flying.

Would JB have flown E-170s at mainline, or would that have been farmed out. Far better comparison in aircraft type.

AAflyer

Not bashing, very happy JB kept it, as many view EMB aircarft as regional aircraft regardless of their size (Big win for management on that train of thought).

 

[newnan]

i didn't say that Bob F. said they would GROW MKE with RJ's. He said that unlike ATL, MKE is a suitable place for them - no gate restraints. Geesh...

And since he said the 50 seat RJ won't work with our fare structure, I was interpreting that to meant larger 70 - 90 seat Rjs...

Easy Sally, I was typing while you were posting so I didn't even read what you wrote. Listen again, Bob F said that he would grow MKE with bigger RJs, 717s, and 737's.

As far as pay goes, the 170 or 190 should pay what the 71 does.

 

[Eagle757shark]

Well,

The E-190 is not a reginal aircraft. While I applaud Jetblue for doing this, I have yet to see CAL, UAL, DAL, or AA farm out (100 seat flying) ie F-100, B737 type flying.

Would JB have flown E-170s at mainline, or would that have been farmed out. Far better comparison in aircraft type.

AAflyer

Not bashing, very happy JB kept it, as many view EMB aircarft as regional aircraft regardless of their size (Big win for management on that train of thought).

United and Delta both have Republic flying contract EMB-170s for them. I don't see any of these aircraft as Regional Jets. This has become a catch phrase that we have allowed management to use against us. These are JET aircraft flying passengers for a 121 carrier period! They should be flown by the mainline carrier period. I don't care if it is REGIONAL or not. In the sixties and seventies and eighties, the DC-9 and the 727 were REGIONAL aircraft. Please someone on here define regional to me! Let us take a little lesson in history. We had mainline carrier and we had commuter. Where did all this regional stuff come from? We have heard it so much we are all buying into it and it is affecting our jobs, upgrades, and pay! ALPA made a mistake by letting others fly their JETS. It is time to correct that mistake. No more contract flying PERIOD!

 

[ultrarunner]

Where did all this regional stuff come from? We have heard it so much we are all buying into it and it is affecting our jobs, upgrades, and pay! ALPA made a mistake by letting others fly their JETS. It is time to correct that mistake. No more contract flying PERIOD!

It came from Canada. Or, more specifically, Canadair Corporation, as in:

Canadair Regional Jet

 

[Eagle757shark]

It came from Canada. Or, more specifically, Canadair Corporation, as in:

Canadair Regional Jet

It is funny that you say that. I remember when Embraer launched the 145. The desinagtion was EMB-145, EMB-135. Then it was changed to ERJ-145, ERJ-135. Well the 170 and 190 are the EMB-190 and EMB-170 and should stay that way. When you see, COEX flying from Houston to Palm Springs in a EMB-145, there is nothing regional about that route. Don't buy into managements phrases. That name regional has destroyed the industry and the compensation of airline pilots all over the country. Unions wake up and stop being exploited!

 

[WRENCH]

United and Delta both have Republic flying contract EMB-170s for them. I don't see any of these aircraft as Regional Jets. This has become a catch phrase that we have allowed management to use against us. These are JET aircraft flying passengers for a 121 carrier period! They should be flown by the mainline carrier period. I don't care if it is REGIONAL or not. In the sixties and seventies and eighties, the DC-9 and the 727 were REGIONAL aircraft. Please someone on here define regional to me! Let us take a little lesson in history. We had mainline carrier and we had commuter. Where did all this regional stuff come from? We have heard it so much we are all buying into it and it is affecting our jobs, upgrades, and pay! ALPA made a mistake by letting others fly their JETS. It is time to correct that mistake. No more contract flying PERIOD!

Well said Eagle.....

 

[TV9Driver]

newnan... let's fight..

anyway, I agree with you, pay should be no less than the 717. That is our BASE salary...

 

[-9Capt]

Current contract limits RJs to 70 seats and 20% of mainline ASMs as long as the mainline fleet is over 100 acft (which it is). If mainline stops growing, as measured on a yearly basis, the RJ's are limited by 75%, ie. the total RJs flying drops to 15% of ASMs.

 

[Nindiri]

I'd fly an RJ here assuming the pay was fair. I loved flying the CRJ-70.

 

[Ty Webb]

I hope it doesn't go through . . . . there is no way I could allow that absolute management putz Steve S#@#&@nsk! be senior to me . . . .

I think we should just walk away, let the stock tank, and in 4 or 5 years, they'll be coming to us . . . .


.

 

[Lear70]

I'd fly an RJ here assuming the pay was fair. I loved flying the CRJ-70.

Right there with ya'.

While the CRJ wasn't as much fun as a Lear or the 727, I'd say it was just as fun to fly as the 717 is.

If we got CRJ's and if the money in the left seat of the CRJ were the same as what our AAI CA's make now with the same schedules and work rules,,,

 

[likeitis]

I hope it doesn't go through . . . . there is no way I could allow that absolute management putz Steve S#@#&@nsk! be senior to me . . . .

I think we should just walk away, let the stock tank, and in 4 or 5 years, they'll be coming to us . . . .


.

Jesus Ty get over it already. It's sounds like he ran over your puppy. He said some things he shouldn't have and we all know he probably is the only person in the history of man to ever say something they are not proud of. There are a lot of worse people at AirTran and Midwest to worry about. How's my buddy captain captain doing?

 

[400ADude]

I'd fly an RJ here assuming the pay was fair. I loved flying the CRJ-70.

How's 100/hr an hour for a Capt sound??

 

[400ADude]

Right there with ya'.

While the CRJ wasn't as much fun as a Lear or the 727, I'd say it was just as fun to fly as the 717 is.

If we got CRJ's and if the money in the left seat of the CRJ were the same as what our AAI CA's make now with the same schedules and work rules,,,

Oh god..........

 

[400ADude]

I hope it doesn't go through . . . . there is no way I could allow that absolute management putz Steve S#@#&@nsk! be senior to me . . . .

I think we should just walk away, let the stock tank, and in 4 or 5 years, they'll be coming to us . . . .


.

Priceless.:bawling::bawling::bawling:

 

[Ty Webb]

That post is taken out of context.

The comments you posted were made after the Midex Pilot Group came out in the media against the merger. . . . . they treated it as a "hostile takeover" in their statements and press releases. I'm sure if the AAI did the same thing towards SWA, you'd be saying something similar to what I did, too . . . . . . . but we're not.

We, the AAI pilors, are completely supportive of this merger, we just want a fair SLI.

Since you brought it up the AAI/MEH thing, most AAI guys were saying that the Midex integration would likely go relative seniority, and no one was griping.

Here's what I said when the merger was announced. Note that I was willing to give Midex guys relative seniority, even you, 400Ahole:

We do have representation, and a pretty sizable M/A contingency fund. If our goal was to wrest something out of it that was more than we should receive (ie, a staple) we have the horsepower to do it . . . . . but is it the right thing to do?

I don't think so. There is a precedent, from the Valujet/AirTran merger, which followed the Allegheny/Mohawk precedent. It will likely be relative seniority, with fences.

See it for yourself:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=1208002&postcount=23

 

[71driver]

Excellent re-post!

I remember we (the Airtran Pilots) were all going through the mental exercise on how we would integrate the Med-ex guys. We were not looking to fluck those guys, we weren't trying to see how many applied to AT, there was no mention of stapling.
In fact I couldn't and didn't find any Airtran Pilot that wasn't looking to be fair.

Thanks for reminding me. Like I needed more reasons (sarcasm) to confirm how BAD that last offer was from SWAPA!

 

[On Your Six]

Priceless.:bawling::bawling::bawling:

Yes, but this time AT may WIN. If they get anything better than the first offer, it is a win. And, they could get a huge win at that. Godspeed!


OYS

 

[Beechdriver32]

OYS-

Pretty fast and loose with your 'may' and 'if' and 'could'.

Easy to say when it's not your carreer.

Especially when your real hope is for the ultimate FAIL of Swa.

Oh, wait, all you care is about 'fair'. I forgot.

 

[laker4284]

I'm still having trouble understanding why Air Tran guys, who are getting a major bump in pay, bennies and job security also think they should max out on seniority too. By definition, that's a windfall for a single group. Why, particularly when that group is with the arguably poorer and weaker company, is that appropriate? I think that is why the SWAPA peeps are so peeved.

How do justify that?

 

[Roomwithaview]

One word:

How do justify that?

GREED

 

[71driver]

OYS

Yes we'll do much, much better in arbitration and I'm pretty sure that's where we'll end up.
Some SWA FI posters keep beating the same old drum about pay benefits job security, etc. ALL those things we had with MED EX gents BUT we were NEVER under the mindset to use that to exploit the MED EX guys, that's called integrity for those of you unfamaliar with that term.
But as I have seen many of you SWA regulars will still cry fowl ,and will somehow manipulate this post to say it doesn't apply to you.

 

[Ty Webb]

I'm still having trouble understanding why Air Tran guys, who are getting a major bump in pay, bennies and job security also think they should max out on seniority too.

"max out on seniority"? You do realize that the proposed list had most of us losing 30 percent of our seniority, right? I would have been mixed in with guys hired almost four years later. That's negative seniority, not maxing out on seniority.

By definition, that's a windfall for a single group. Why, particularly when that group is with the arguably poorer and weaker company, is that appropriate? I think that is why the SWAPA peeps are so peeved.

How do justify that?

A "windfall" , in regards to SLI, is defined as the "taking of something from one group and giving it to the other". So, paying the AAI pilots the going rates at SWA is not a windfall, not in the legal sense. You could say it is an improvement.

You should be aware, too, that SWA plans to reduce our main domicile by over half. That means that the ATL fences and protections would not benefit half of the pilots.

Meanwhile, the displaced half would have been stripped of four years' seniority, effectively stapled to the bottom of our seat's list, where we would remain for most of the decade, until we started acquiring seniority again.

The issue here is seniority, not money. We only want to keep our seniority, not take away any SWA pilot's seniority. How you determine that makes us greedy is beyond me, but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.