ASA MEC response to loss of aircraft

[777forever]

Basically we have to get this merger done ASAP to stand a chance competing for contracts . Good idea. But I still think were screwed.

 

[mxaviator]

With the same urgent voice they wanted PBS passed, that was supposed to make us more competitive for contracts too. I agree we're screwed, MGMT flushed our performance down the toilet two years in a row and now they wash their hands, blaming us, while we swirl in the the toilet waiting to go down.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Basically we have to get this merger done ASAP to stand a chance competing for contracts . Good idea. But I still think were screwed.

Of course if ALPA is looking for contract improvements, that will only make our cost structure higher....That won't help...

 

[probablecause]

with the same urgent voice they wanted pbs passed, that was supposed to make us more competitive for contracts too. I agree we're screwed, mgmt flushed our performance down the toilet two years in a row and now they wash their hands, blaming us, while we swirl in the the toilet waiting to go down.

------this------

 

[cybourg10]

Joe, how much are you wanting to give back to the company? 10%? Vacation low? Maybe we should cap the pay scale at 8 years and build all schedules to 95 hrs. Will that make you feel better about our future bidding chances?

XJT won the UAL RFP in 2009 with some of the highest labor costs and the bid was/is profitable! How did we win that bid without PBS or sub-par 401k matching?

 

[Metro752]

burn it down!

 

[Nevets]

Of course if ALPA is looking for contract improvements, that will only make our cost structure higher....That won't help...

What contract improvements are you against? Are you willing to give anything up? Should XJT pilots take concessions in the new contract?

 

[aircombat]

What I like about the memo: How they compare GoJet to bargain trash bags and burned out light bulbs.

What I dislike about the memo: How the union once again sounds like a second management expressing their willingness to become more "competitive". If they want to ask for any decrease in pay or QOL then management better be prepared to take their own pay cuts, and not saving money by laying off some assistants.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Cybourg10,Nevets, and aircombat...

Let me turn this around. Based on the job we do now compared to 30 years ago and based on inflation, the job we do now should pay about 250K a year with a pension plan that pays about 150k a year starting at age 60...Shouldn't we push for that? That's what this job paid then....Why not push for that?

 

[shamrock]

Of course if ALPA is looking for contract improvements, that will only make our cost structure higher....That won't help...

So what will help? What is your solution?

 

[ex j-41]

Have industry wide pay rates for specific equipment. So the blame gets off labor and on management. We should not be responsible for wether or not an airline is profitable. We should get a fair wage and the way we are managed should determine how profitable we are. Quit taking from Labor.

 

[JoeMerchant]

So what will help? What is your solution?

I've been clear for 10 years what the two solutions are....

1. Brand scope written into mainline contracts that stops this competition within a brand for flying....We had a chance back in 2000...

In addition, a national seniority list and pay based on longevity, not airplane size....

or, in the absence of #1

2. We compete with the other carriers and lower our costs to match them...

I prefered #1, but the ALPA chesthumpers and cheerleaders didn't agree....

What's your "solution"?

 

[aircombat]

Cybourg10,Nevets, and aircombat...

Let me turn this around. Based on the job we do now compared to 30 years ago and based on inflation, the job we do now should pay about 250K a year with a pension plan that pays about 150k a year starting at age 60...Shouldn't we push for that? That's what this job paid then....Why not push for that?

I don't know who proposed that. Again you are just being crazy. But it sounds like a better idea then paying a union 2% to tell us we should fight for the bottom.
I shouldn't even respond to you. You have already made it clear that all you want is to make this place as cheap as it needs to last you till retirement and then you don't care. Just like the rest of you baby boomers not caring about the legacy that you leave has destroyed this career.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I don't know who proposed that. Again you are just being crazy. But it sounds like a better idea then paying a union 2% to tell us we should fight for the bottom.

That is based on what this job paid 30 years ago adjusted for inflation...Is that unreasonable in your opinion? If so, why?

 

[aircombat]

That is based on what this job paid 30 years ago adjusted for inflation...Is that unreasonable in your opinion? If so, why?

It's called fight to the bottom and this would be fight to the top. No one would expect to go straight to the top just like it will take us many more years to reach the bottom. I do believe that we should aim for what you propose but any increase above inflation is progress.

I think that many of us just want to fight up instead of down. Since you want to make crazy statements I could do the same. You want to fight for the bottom and say you can live on $40K. Why don't we just expedite the fight to the bottom and suggest all ASA pilots get paid $40K and no benefits.

Before we start talking about big pay increases I think most realize we need to consolidate. forcing the company to merge us with SkyWest would be the logical first step.

 

[JoeMerchant]

It's called fight to the bottom and this would be fight to the top. No one would expect to go straight to the top just like it will take us many more years to reach the bottom. I do believe that we should aim for what you propose but any increase above inflation is progress.

Why can't we just return to what this job paid 30 years ago adjusted for inflation? Why wait? Honestly what would be the harm?

I think that many of us just want to fight up instead of down. Since you want to make crazy statements I could do the same. You want to fight for the bottom and say you can live on $40K. Why don't we just expedite the fight to the bottom and suggest all ASA pilots get paid $40K and no benefits.

How is my statement crazy? It is simply restoring what this job paid? How is that "crazy"?

Before we start talking about big pay increases I think most realize we need to consolidate. forcing the company to merge us with SkyWest would be the logical first step.

ASA, CMR, and DAL should have consolidated back in 2000...However YOUR ALPA and our "colleagues" at DAL didn't want to...We could possibly merge with Skywest, but it will only happen if we agree to get rid of all the unions at ASA/XJT....Are you willing to do that? That is the only way it is going to happen.....

 

[Plainsman]

join the combined forces of ASA and ExpressJet into a single entity and enjoy the economy of scale that comes with operating one company instead of two. In other words, let’s get this merger done!

Why not join skywest into the mix too. Is there that much of a cost savings in keeping them nonunion, I'd dump alpa and whatever they do for a combined company in a second.

 

[aircombat]

Why can't we just return to what this job paid 30 years ago adjusted for inflation? Why wait? Honestly what would be the harm?

I think I answered that question. I really don't know what you think I'm going to say but it's not going to happen so moving on.

How is my statement crazy? It is simply restoring what this job paid? How is that "crazy"?

Moving on.

ASA, CMR, and DAL should have consolidated back in 2000...However YOUR ALPA and our "colleagues" at DAL didn't want to...We could possibly merge with Skywest, but it will only happen if we agree to get rid of all the unions at ASA/XJT....Are you willing to do that? That is the only way it is going to happen.....

Finally an intelligent statement. Well barring the "YOUR ALPA" statement. I guess you don't read my posts. I think soon enough people will be getting pissed off at paying 2% for a magazine and second set of management. So how can a pilot group try to negotiate merger terms on the condition of ousting the union?

 

[701EV]

"ASA, CMR, and DAL should have consolidated back in 2000...However YOUR ALPA and our "colleagues" at DAL didn't want to...We could possibly merge with Skywest, but it will only happen if we agree to get rid of all the unions at ASA/XJT....Are you willing to do that? That is the only way it is going to happen....."

Joe,

I'm still waiting for the 2000 BOD Bilateral Scope Impact Committee to come up with a plan for the PID. I guess they still can't figure out what to do with the CRJ's.

Thank you ALPA National YOU SUCK!!!!!!!!!!

As far as I'm concerned ALPA can go with the 200's and 700's we are losing!!

 

[RJLoser]

If SKYW, XJT, ASA merged without a union you would be the only DCI carrier.