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Crash Pad

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Posts
1,720
Now that the deal is out I gotta know... Knowing Atlanta was going to shrink as a base why didn't you go DOH? I know that was a non-starter for most of this board but.... You go DOH with no protections. You shrink Atlanta. Boom you snag all our junior captain seats.

I was under the impression you wanted the Captain seats.
 
Date of hire hurts many pilots on the back end as AAI is younger, and the snapshot of gaining a couple hundred seats now, and losing all upgrades till 2020 is less equal to SWA pilots and still a windfall for AAI pilots
 
The current deal is a ******************** sandwich but the "best" it is for a Tranny is DOH -2 years up to about DOH-4 years.

In 2013 the 717 will become a SYSTEM bid and in 2020 the entire SLI benefit will start to be realized.

It's a marathon, not a sprint and this deal, while terrible, is better than DOH.

Gup
 
GuppyWN said:
The current deal is a ******************** sandwich but the "best" it is for a Tranny is DOH -2 years up to about DOH-4 years.

In 2013 the 717 will become a SYSTEM bid and in 2020 the entire SLI benefit will start to be realized.

It's a marathon, not a sprint and this deal, while terrible, is better than DOH.

Gup
Click to expand...

I agree, lets just get it over with and get the party started.
 
How bout -1.

Still think its a bad idea. Guy Jr to me makes 500k more than I do over the next 8 years. Sorry but I'm really having a difficult time with that.
 
Guy Jr. was going to be a captain weather his paycheck said Tranny or SWA.

But I'm up for argument.

Gup
 
I think (scary) the forward looking 0 growth projections are one way to look at the list. Also, there are options for AAI Capt to leave the left seat (don't know how many will) for the right seat for QOL. Bottom line is all left seat upgrades go to the SWA FO's before any AAI Fo's. Even in ATL.
 
burg said:
How bout -1.

Still think its a bad idea. Guy Jr to me makes 500k more than I do over the next 8 years. Sorry but I'm really having a difficult time with that.
Click to expand...

I dont know your position on the list but the guy junior to you was probably hired at Airtran a few years before you were at SWA.
 
I am in the bottom 100 at SWA. I will be 500 #s away from upgrade in 2020, But will be senior(out of 7865). QOL is everything to me. I want to see my kids grow up. If I get 27 years left in the left seat, I will be happy.LOL
 
burg said:
How bout -1.

Still think its a bad idea. Guy Jr to me makes 500k more than I do over the next 8 years. Sorry but I'm really having a difficult time with that.
Click to expand...

Some people make out more than others. It is life. Some people die younger or get cancer or have a family problems. It is just a fact of life. If you have your health and a good job and still make out, although not as good as some others consider yourself lucky. The same guy you mention that makes more money could be the guy that finds out he has a health problem that gives him one year to live. Now who is the lucky one? In 50 years nobody involved with this will be here anyway.
 
Frequency said:
I dont know your position on the list but the guy junior to you was probably hired at Airtran a few years before you were at SWA.
Click to expand...
Approximately 300-350 trannies are junior to me by DOH. In a no growth scenario they make 60-70K a year more than me over the next several years.
But wait if I fly with one of these lottery winners and I satisfy all the fine print in SL9 I get an extra 1.25 TFP premium. The only good thing I see is if the sick feeling I get in the pit of my stomach from flying with someone several years junior to me prevents me from going to work, the premium still applies.
 
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hairball1173 said:
Also, there are options for AAI Capt to leave the left seat (don't know how many will) for the right seat for QOL.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of incentive for AAI CA's to give up the seat, since after the loss of three or four years of seniority, they would be mid-level FO's, not senior FO's. It's too bad this wasn't addressed, as some AAI CA's would certainly give up the seat to be senior FO's

Bottom line is all left seat upgrades go to the SWA FO's before any AAI Fo's. Even in ATL.
Click to expand...
I don't think there will be any ATL upgrades, since 40% of all 737 CA's will be displaced from ATL, and the "right of return" would go to one of those displaced CA's first, if I understand the agreement correctly.

Regds,
TW
 
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Cometman said:
Some people make out more than others. It is life. Some people die younger or get cancer or have a family problems. It is just a fact of life. If you have your health and a good job and still make out, although not as good as some others consider yourself lucky. The same guy you mention that makes more money could be the guy that finds out he has a health problem that gives him one year to live. Now who is the lucky one? In 50 years nobody involved with this will be here anyway.
Click to expand...

Cometman...I hope you don't mind buti am stealing your post and putting on our other forum sites. It is so true....others should read it.
 
Ty Webb,

Just a heads up, someone is posting under your name. Rational thoughts and no one called a d-bag? Must be someone else.

Either that or you finally figured out that you won the lottery.

Wonder which?

BD32
 
burg said:
How bout -1.

Still think its a bad idea. Guy Jr to me makes 500k more than I do over the next 8 years. Sorry but I'm really having a difficult time with that.
Click to expand...
He's only junior to you because of the SLI agreement. If it went DoH, our most junior CA would still be senior to you by a couple years.

On the up-side, if it were to go to arbitration, you'd probably end up much closer to me in the seniority pack. Most "reasonable" scenarios of arbitration still have us losing some seniority, but only about half the hit the junior CA's and senior F/O's actually took.

The risk of implementation and the possible loss of the protections this thing gives the AAI pilots is the only reason the MC signed off on it. Take those away and it would be arbitration, and EVERYONE has risk in that... I know you don't like it, and neither do I; I think it sucks, but what are you gonna do, really? Vote it down? Send it to arbitration which heavily favors something more in our favor for seniority or hope that GK comes back with some money for you guys?

With this deal you will upgrade 7-8 years before I do, 2-3 years before you would have without the deal due to the 53 ADDITIONAL aircraft deliveries you guys will take, make about $1 MEEELION DOLLARS more than me, and we were hired the same freaking year and we're almost the same age, except you're YOUNGER than I am. I'm going to have to throw gear for your complainin' a$$... so SHUT IT! ;)

Seriously, I know you guys were hoping to get a little moolah out of the deal, sucks that you didn't, would probably have made a bitter pill go down smoother. Sorry... sucks over here, too. Nothing to do but pray for growth and try to trade as much time as possible to at least get a FEW weekends off with my son before he starts High School in 8 years and forgets I exist. :D
 
Lear no one is using the AAI deliveries for anything but replacements of the 300s on the SWA side. Zero grow projections, we have been sold growth and lost out on expectations from communications from SWA and SWAPA, no more.
 
But here's the kicker... you were replacing those -300's anyway. That was going to stagnate your list as your other deliveries were replacement aircraft, correct?

With our additional 53 737's, those aircraft no longer are a net-zero loss. Your list WILL move faster. Just a simple math equation as their delivery slots are at the same time your pre-acquisition deliveries were coming.

You're going to grow faster, it's all in the delivery dates. As a result, your guys are going to upgrade sooner than they thought. I'm happy for them, several friends will be in that group (including Burg). Sucks that I won't get to share in it, but it helps my relative seniority get back into a decent quality of life range sometime in the next few years with better coin once it happens, so it's all good.

Life goes on. Always does. Nothing to do about it but make the best of it. As it's been said, and I think I'm going to make it my signature line, "A man's about as happy as he makes up his mind to be." :beer:
 
Lear70 said:
But here's the kicker... you were replacing those -300's anyway. That was going to stagnate your list as your other deliveries were replacement aircraft, correct?

With our additional 53 737's, those aircraft no longer are a net-zero loss. Your list WILL move faster. Just a simple math equation as their delivery slots are at the same time your pre-acquisition deliveries were coming.

You're going to grow faster, it's all in the delivery dates. As a result, your guys are going to upgrade sooner than they thought. I'm happy for them, several friends will be in that group (including Burg). Sucks that I won't get to share in it, but it helps my relative seniority get back into a decent quality of life range sometime in the next few years with better coin once it happens, so it's all good.

Life goes on. Always does. Nothing to do about it but make the best of it. As it's been said, and I think I'm going to make it my signature line, "A man's about as happy as he makes up his mind to be." :beer:
Click to expand...
Lear buddy, how big can an airline get?

Once the dust settles, those 57 extra jets won't be extra until Gary gets his 15% ROI. Until then, zero net growth, everything will be used to replace the pop tops.

I wager minimum 5 years before SWA nets one extra tail. SWA is glacial. Enjoy the freeze.

I ran the numbers, this deal moves me narry a tick, I end up two decades away within 1% of where I am today.
 
LEAR
If you were even close to right, then it would be ok.

But you know how my luck runs. I can't even keep the battery in your blue truck from taking a dump?

Just voting no as many times as possible.

13,yrs and nary a yes.
 
burg said:
LEAR
If you were even close to right, then it would be ok.

But you know how my luck runs. I can't even keep the battery in your blue truck from taking a dump?
Click to expand...
LOL - I forgot about that blue truck. Was that before or after the key switch stopped working and you had to jumper the starter relay with a big screwdriver to get it to start?

Ahhhh, memories. ;)

Just voting no as many times as possible.

13,yrs and nary a yes.
Click to expand...
Gotta do what you gotta do, buddy. It'll all work out, gotta have a little faith.
 
scoreboardII said:
Lear buddy, how big can an airline get?
Click to expand...
Big enough for me to upgrade and retire #1 on the list? Hey, one can dream... :D

Once the dust settles, those 57 extra jets won't be extra until Gary gets his 15% ROI. Until then, zero net growth, everything will be used to replace the pop tops.

I wager minimum 5 years before SWA nets one extra tail. SWA is glacial. Enjoy the freeze.

I ran the numbers, this deal moves me narry a tick, I end up two decades away within 1% of where I am today.
Click to expand...
Hope you're wrong about that and that GK is serious about the growth he sees with our combination and fleshing out the near-international stuff.

If not,,, well,,, what can ya do? Crying in your beer is a serious loss of man points. ;)
 

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