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slaquer5 said:
And you say your. Not. A hater
Click to expand...


You guys seem to equate any comment made about SWA other than "SWA rules!" with being a SWA hater. It appears to me Fubi simply calling foul on the SWA is King perception. I got news for you, SWA is not the "King" of the industry. None of us are. SWA has been quite successful in it's niche of short to medium haul LCC flying. That's great but it doesn't make you "King"
Personally I would guess that your merger with AirTran will work just fine and you will maintain a piece of the ATL market thanks to it (you could not have done it on your own).
It will be interesting to see how SWA fares going forward. SWA established itself by having costs lower than the competition thanks to higher productivity, lower paid employees and after 9/11 they had a fuel hedging advantage. Now the legacies are much stronger, SWA no longer has the fuel hedge or lower paid employee advantage and you seem to have run out of markets were you don't have to compete head to head with the legacies. Seems to me you guys should be just a little more humble and realistic about your position in the industry.
Oh and please try and keep that "warrior spirit" in check when you taxi your airplanes around eh?

Now, does that make me a hater?
 
waveflyer said:
Believe me when I tell you, SWA and it's pilots couldn't be less comparable with united and their pilots. A whole different management, culture within our group, culture companywide, truly, an entirely different experience.

But good try.

You probe your hater mode with the "...for now."
Of course, but I'll bet you a Benjamin we'll be king for a while. A long, long while.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine two companies more different than UAL and SWA but I think the point is that in the 90's we all knew UAL pilots who thought UAL was "King" of the hill and who loved to boast about how much they make relative to their peers..........
 
Dan Roman said:
You guys seem to equate any comment made about SWA other than "SWA rules!" with being a SWA hater. It appears to me Fubi simply calling foul on the SWA is King perception. I got news for you, SWA is not the "King" of the industry. None of us are. SWA has been quite successful in it's niche of short to medium haul LCC flying. That's great but it doesn't make you "King"
Personally I would guess that your merger with AirTran will work just fine and you will maintain a piece of the ATL market thanks to it (you could not have done it on your own).
It will be interesting to see how SWA fares going forward. SWA established itself by having costs lower than the competition thanks to higher productivity, lower paid employees and after 9/11 they had a fuel hedging advantage. Now the legacies are much stronger, SWA no longer has the fuel hedge or lower paid employee advantage and you seem to have run out of markets were you don't have to compete head to head with the legacies. Seems to me you guys should be just a little more humble and realistic about your position in the industry.
Oh and please try and keep that "warrior spirit" in check when you taxi your airplanes around eh?

Now, does that make me a hater?
Click to expand...

We get paid by the tfp not the minute. So per our fom we get to do 30 GS. Sorry brother we will worry how we roll and you worry about yourself.
 
>>>Now the legacies are much stronger....<<<

Thanks to the shredding of contracts, retirements plans, and the screwing of investors and suppliers! Not something to be proud of. Nice to be able to compete by breaking contractual promises and just dumping off your your employees and debt to the curb! Heck of a way to run a business. If not for the lousy bankruptcy laws, they'd have all been out of business. Apparently no Darwinism in business.
 
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Dan Roman said:
You guys seem to equate any comment made about SWA other than "SWA rules!" with being a SWA hater. It appears to me Fubi simply calling foul on the SWA is King perception. I got news for you, SWA is not the "King" of the industry. None of us are. SWA has been quite successful in it's niche of short to medium haul LCC flying. That's great but it doesn't make you "King"
Personally I would guess that your merger with AirTran will work just fine and you will maintain a piece of the ATL market thanks to it (you could not have done it on your own).
It will be interesting to see how SWA fares going forward. SWA established itself by having costs lower than the competition thanks to higher productivity, lower paid employees and after 9/11 they had a fuel hedging advantage. Now the legacies are much stronger, SWA no longer has the fuel hedge or lower paid employee advantage and you seem to have run out of markets were you don't have to compete head to head with the legacies. Seems to me you guys should be just a little more humble and realistic about your position in the industry.
Oh and please try and keep that "warrior spirit" in check when you taxi your airplanes around eh?

Now, does that make me a hater?
Click to expand...
How many years of profitability has good ole SWA had the past THREE decades? Hey Ponco, I recieved about 250 grr worth of fun coupons last year and only worked 150 days. You tell me who has it better. I am KING! Might flirt with 300 this year. Wut is your excuse! I guess we are just a "start up" trying to make ends meet.
 
redflyer65 said:
What are you smoking Dan? You obviously have know idea what you're talking about regarding most of the whole post.
Click to expand...

You conveniently altered my post to twist what I said. I said SWA no longer has the fuel hedge ADVANTAGE, not SWA no longer has fuel hedges like you altered the post to say. Yes they have hedges, so does everyone else now. Instead of slinging insults and altering my quote, what have I said that isn't true? The legacies are nowhere near as vulnerable, SWA does not have the same advantage with cheaper labor that they had in the past, they certainly don't have the same fuel hedge advantage they had, so what is it?

You flat out twisted my post around to say something I never said and you ask me what am I smoking?
 
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titan1 said:
How many years of profitability has good ole SWA had the past THREE decades? Hey Ponco, I recieved about 250 grr worth of fun coupons last year and only worked 150 days. You tell me who has it better. I am KING! Might flirt with 300 this year. Wut is your excuse! I guess we are just a "start up" trying to make ends meet.
Click to expand...


I rest my case. (I guess post 93 went right over your head!)
 
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Dan Roman said:
Now the legacies are much
Click to expand...

Ok Dan,

You really think that the legacies are stronger? Check Delta's loss last quarter. Answer me this..

What percentage of aircraft does Delta own outright? What about everything else? Leases abound my friend. It's still to this day a different operating model as someone stated before. Years of legacy CEO's that don't give a rat's arse about the customer or the employees really. I would say Southwest continues to be different...and successful every single year because of it.

And yes, I still wonder what you are smoking. The differences are still night and day.
 
You really don't think Delta is less vulnerable now that they have gone through BK court and slashed wages, dramatically cleaned up their balance sheet and merged with NWA? You really don't think UAL/CAL merged and reorganized are not stronger? I'm not debating who is better or worse, you are bringing that up, I'm just saying they are not as vulnerable as they were in the past.
You really think UAL of today is just as bloated and inefficient as it was in the 90's???
 
The employees sure are not as happy and both airlines are at the bottom of customer satisfactions surveys and at the top of the most hated companies in America. So you got that going for you.
 
My take on the whole industry is the music has stopped and everyone has a chair. In the past airlines fought for market share and the weak ones disappeared. A lot of airlines are gone, the few left will survive, I don't think anyone is in danger of shutting down anymore. Hell, even USAir, with all their problems is profitable of late and AMR has over 6 billion in cash.
In the LCC type of flying, Virgin, JetBlue and Frontier all provide an excellent product and have lower costs than the legacies or SWA. They are sort of in the position SWA was in the 80's and 90's.
 
Secret Squirrel said:
The employees sure are not as happy and both airlines are at the bottom of customer satisfactions surveys and at the top of the most hated companies in America. So you got that going for you.
Click to expand...

Which is nice.
Again,you are trying to turn it into a who is better. I'm just saying the legacies are not as vulnerable as they once were.
 
Dan Roman said:
In the LCC type of flying, Virgin, JetBlue and Frontier all provide an excellent product and have lower costs than the legacies or SWA. They are sort of in the position SWA was in the 80's and 90's.
Click to expand...

Well that explains why Frontier went into bankruptcy, lower costs, who knew?
Virgin is propped up with cash from sir Richard.
JetBlue does good however.
To suggest that Frontier is in the sort of position that SWA was in the 80's and 90's is ridiculous.
 
Britpilot said:
Well that explains why Frontier went into bankruptcy, lower costs, who knew?
Virgin is propped up with cash from sir Richard.
JetBlue does good however.
To suggest that Frontier is in the sort of position that SWA was in the 80's and 90's is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Actually I said sort of. They all have potential to grow and be as successful as SWA is now in the future.
 
Just for the record...wasn't JetBlue given a $300 Million cash infusion last year by Lufthansa?
 
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Dan Roman said:
You really don't think Delta is less vulnerable now that they have gone through BK court and slashed wages, dramatically cleaned up their balance sheet and merged with NWA? You really don't think UAL/CAL merged and reorganized are not stronger? I'm not debating who is better or worse, you are bringing that up, I'm just saying they are not as vulnerable as they were in the past.
You really think UAL of today is just as bloated and inefficient as it was in the 90's???
Click to expand...

Dan,

I agree with some of the things you post, and Delta is in better shape in some areas than it was before. But the bottom line on all these mergers...DAL/NW, CAL/UAL, AA/? is that its the same management team doing the same things! Yea, they went into bankruptcy to shed pilot cost, contract, etc...but what's different?

As a matter of fact, on the DL side they are finding that 'right sizing' the plane for the routes is okay when you have may 5 fleet types, but it's a massive drag on the bottom line when you have 9, and all the parts and training associated with that operation. Hopefully they will get it under control. How many hundreds of pilots are sitting around every single month getting min guarantee waiting for training? Or sitting on reserve not flying? This is great for the pilot, but in the end it's horrible for the companies bottom line. And their bottom line is your bottom line, but most legacy pilots don't care. Not saying that's you, but the majority fit this mentality.

I think Delta is one of the better legacies to work at, but just hope they don't continue down the same road they've been of X number of years. Leasing everything, outsourcing everything, and poor customer service. Time will tell.
 
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redflyer65 said:
Dan,

I agree with some of the things you post, and Delta is in better shape in some areas than it was before. But the bottom line on all these mergers...DAL/NW, CAL/UAL, AA/? is that its the same management team doing the same things! Yea, they went into bankruptcy to shed pilot cost, contract, etc...but what's different?

As a matter of fact, on the DL side they are finding that 'right sizing' the plane for the routes is okay when you have may 5 fleet types, but it's a massive drag on the bottom line when you have 9, and all the parts and training associated with that operation. Hopefully they will get it under control. How many hundreds of pilots are sitting around every single month getting min guarantee waiting for training? Or sitting on reserve not flying? This is great for the pilot, but in the end it's horrible for the companies bottom line. And their bottom line is your bottom line, but most legacy pilots don't care. Not saying that's you, but the majority fit this mentality.

I think Delta is one of the better legacies to work at, but just hope they don't continue down the same road they've been of X number of years. Leasing everything, outsourcing everything, and poor customer service. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you here!
Quite frankly, I give you guys a lot of credit for your management raising the industry bar in the area of how to treat employees. Whenever a case needs to be made, in negotiations or elsewhere, that treating the employees well proves to be a better investment than "the beatings will continue till the moral improves!" the example always used is SWA.
Without your example out there that treating your employees well pays handsome dividends, who knows what the less enlightened management teams might be trying.
So thanks for that AND the 3 2 1! Some places extend it to me too even though I am not SWA.
 
More places might if you'd call it 1-2-3 instead of 3-2-1. It's not a rocket launch, it's a booze discount!

Gup
 
Funniest dang thing I ever saw........

Sitting in the bar one night with a room full of peeps. One guy gets his check, looks at it, and slides it back to the bartender saying "Uh, I didn't get my discount." Bartender says "who you with?" to which the offended individual said "UNITED!" Bartender says "United doesn't get a discount here."

I wanted to laugh but I figgered he was pissed enough without my input. So remember Dan, it's 1-2-3!

Gup
 
GuppyWN said:
Funniest dang thing I ever saw........

Sitting in the bar one night with a room full of peeps. One guy gets his check, looks at it, and slides it back to the bartender saying "Uh, I didn't get my discount." Bartender says "who you with?" to which the offended individual said "UNITED!" Bartender says "United doesn't get a discount here."

I wanted to laugh but I figgered he was pissed enough without my input. So remember Dan, it's 1-2-3!

Gup
Click to expand...


LOL I will!
 
Dan Roman said:
I totally agree with you here!
Quite frankly, I give you guys a lot of credit for your management raising the industry bar in the area of how to treat employees. Whenever a case needs to be made, in negotiations or elsewhere, that treating the employees well proves to be a better investment than "the beatings will continue till the moral improves!" the example always used is SWA.
Without your example out there that treating your employees well pays handsome dividends, who knows what the less enlightened management teams might be trying.
So thanks for that AND the 3 2 1! Some places extend it to me too even though I am not SWA.
Click to expand...



So you hate SWA well at least have a hard on for them, but pretend to be a SWA pilot.

Dan you have issues
 
Dan, I like almost every post you make that doesn't touch swa- my response has been said. When it comes to swa, you're just 1, in a long line who are predicting swa's run is ending.... A very long line- funny thing is, there was a time I'd have agreed with you- now, I most definitely do not, and pride myself in seeing things clear. Is Michael Jordan prideful when he says hes the best ever? Probably. Do wilt and russell have arguments? Maybe. Will Kobe? got to get a 6th ring- Lebron- got to get a 1st-6th.

In the meantime 40 years of productivity and extremely high morale.
"IT'S THE ONLY ARGUMENT I NEED SEAN!!!"
;-)

Hater in the house.
 
slaquer5 said:
So you hate SWA well at least have a hard on for them, but pretend to be a SWA pilot.

Dan you have issues
Click to expand...


1) If you read my posts a little more carefully I think I made it clear I don't hate SWA at all, my last post was, in fact, a tip of the hat to your industry leading management/labor relationship. I do call foul on the "SWA RULES EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS!" mentality of a few on here. But I get on this board because I find whats going on across the industry interesting. I don't hate any airline.

2) You are jumping to conclusions on "pretending I am a SWA pilot" for the 1 2 3 rule. It was a tongue in cheek comment with GUP, who I might add doesn't seem nearly as sensitive as you . What spurred it was The Monarch in PDX always gave me the 1 2 3 discount when we stayed there even though they new I was not SWA.
 
waveflyer said:
Dan, I like almost every post you make that doesn't touch swa- my response has been said. When it comes to swa, you're just 1, in a long line who are predicting swa's run is ending.... A very long line- funny thing is, there was a time I'd have agreed with you- now, I most definitely do not, and pride myself in seeing things clear. Is Michael Jordan prideful when he says hes the best ever? Probably. Do wilt and russell have arguments? Maybe. Will Kobe? got to get a 6th ring- Lebron- got to get a 1st-6th.

In the meantime 40 years of productivity and extremely high morale.
"IT'S THE ONLY ARGUMENT I NEED SEAN!!!"
;-)

Hater in the house.
Click to expand...

Wave, I'm not that good a writer but I thought I have made it clear enough were I have never predicted SWA's downfall in any way. Just because I point out potential vulnerabilities in response to SWA RULES! doesn't mean I think they will fail.
That's good you pride yourself in seeing things clearly, but that doesn't mean there are not different points of views that are equally valid just like there are different airlines that are doing what they do just as well in there own way.
 
waveflyer said:
Is Michael Jordan prideful when he says hes the best ever? Probably. Do wilt and russell have arguments? Maybe. Will Kobe? got to get a 6th ring- Lebron- got to get a 1st-6th.
Click to expand...

Lebron...in the same paragraph as MJ?!?! Really? REALLY???!!!??!!

Lebron COMPLETELY caved in the finals....especially in the 4th quarter. He is a chump of the highest order...one of the greatest chokers in professional sports (yes, including the entire Cubs organization of the last century). I am deeply offended by your remarks...please come back with a retraction ASAP as I believe this to be one of the most offensive things I have read on this forum.
 

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