Thanks AirTran MEC!

[Dan Roman]

You really don't think Delta is less vulnerable now that they have gone through BK court and slashed wages, dramatically cleaned up their balance sheet and merged with NWA? You really don't think UAL/CAL merged and reorganized are not stronger? I'm not debating who is better or worse, you are bringing that up, I'm just saying they are not as vulnerable as they were in the past.
You really think UAL of today is just as bloated and inefficient as it was in the 90's???

 

[Secret Squirrel]

The employees sure are not as happy and both airlines are at the bottom of customer satisfactions surveys and at the top of the most hated companies in America. So you got that going for you.

 

[Dan Roman]

My take on the whole industry is the music has stopped and everyone has a chair. In the past airlines fought for market share and the weak ones disappeared. A lot of airlines are gone, the few left will survive, I don't think anyone is in danger of shutting down anymore. Hell, even USAir, with all their problems is profitable of late and AMR has over 6 billion in cash.
In the LCC type of flying, Virgin, JetBlue and Frontier all provide an excellent product and have lower costs than the legacies or SWA. They are sort of in the position SWA was in the 80's and 90's.

 

[Dan Roman]

The employees sure are not as happy and both airlines are at the bottom of customer satisfactions surveys and at the top of the most hated companies in America. So you got that going for you.

Which is nice.
Again,you are trying to turn it into a who is better. I'm just saying the legacies are not as vulnerable as they once were.

 

[Britpilot]

In the LCC type of flying, Virgin, JetBlue and Frontier all provide an excellent product and have lower costs than the legacies or SWA. They are sort of in the position SWA was in the 80's and 90's.

Well that explains why Frontier went into bankruptcy, lower costs, who knew?
Virgin is propped up with cash from sir Richard.
JetBlue does good however.
To suggest that Frontier is in the sort of position that SWA was in the 80's and 90's is ridiculous.

 

[Dan Roman]

Well that explains why Frontier went into bankruptcy, lower costs, who knew?
Virgin is propped up with cash from sir Richard.
JetBlue does good however.
To suggest that Frontier is in the sort of position that SWA was in the 80's and 90's is ridiculous.

Actually I said sort of. They all have potential to grow and be as successful as SWA is now in the future.

 

[DonVerita]

Just for the record...wasn't JetBlue given a $300 Million cash infusion last year by Lufthansa?

 

[redflyer65]

You really don't think Delta is less vulnerable now that they have gone through BK court and slashed wages, dramatically cleaned up their balance sheet and merged with NWA? You really don't think UAL/CAL merged and reorganized are not stronger? I'm not debating who is better or worse, you are bringing that up, I'm just saying they are not as vulnerable as they were in the past.
You really think UAL of today is just as bloated and inefficient as it was in the 90's???

Dan,

I agree with some of the things you post, and Delta is in better shape in some areas than it was before. But the bottom line on all these mergers...DAL/NW, CAL/UAL, AA/? is that its the same management team doing the same things! Yea, they went into bankruptcy to shed pilot cost, contract, etc...but what's different?

As a matter of fact, on the DL side they are finding that 'right sizing' the plane for the routes is okay when you have may 5 fleet types, but it's a massive drag on the bottom line when you have 9, and all the parts and training associated with that operation. Hopefully they will get it under control. How many hundreds of pilots are sitting around every single month getting min guarantee waiting for training? Or sitting on reserve not flying? This is great for the pilot, but in the end it's horrible for the companies bottom line. And their bottom line is your bottom line, but most legacy pilots don't care. Not saying that's you, but the majority fit this mentality.

I think Delta is one of the better legacies to work at, but just hope they don't continue down the same road they've been of X number of years. Leasing everything, outsourcing everything, and poor customer service. Time will tell.

 

[Dan Roman]

Dan,

I agree with some of the things you post, and Delta is in better shape in some areas than it was before. But the bottom line on all these mergers...DAL/NW, CAL/UAL, AA/? is that its the same management team doing the same things! Yea, they went into bankruptcy to shed pilot cost, contract, etc...but what's different?

As a matter of fact, on the DL side they are finding that 'right sizing' the plane for the routes is okay when you have may 5 fleet types, but it's a massive drag on the bottom line when you have 9, and all the parts and training associated with that operation. Hopefully they will get it under control. How many hundreds of pilots are sitting around every single month getting min guarantee waiting for training? Or sitting on reserve not flying? This is great for the pilot, but in the end it's horrible for the companies bottom line. And their bottom line is your bottom line, but most legacy pilots don't care. Not saying that's you, but the majority fit this mentality.

I think Delta is one of the better legacies to work at, but just hope they don't continue down the same road they've been of X number of years. Leasing everything, outsourcing everything, and poor customer service. Time will tell.

I totally agree with you here!
Quite frankly, I give you guys a lot of credit for your management raising the industry bar in the area of how to treat employees. Whenever a case needs to be made, in negotiations or elsewhere, that treating the employees well proves to be a better investment than "the beatings will continue till the moral improves!" the example always used is SWA.
Without your example out there that treating your employees well pays handsome dividends, who knows what the less enlightened management teams might be trying.
So thanks for that AND the 3 2 1! Some places extend it to me too even though I am not SWA.

 

[GuppyWN]

More places might if you'd call it 1-2-3 instead of 3-2-1. It's not a rocket launch, it's a booze discount!

Gup

 

[Dan Roman]

More places might if you'd call it 1-2-3 instead of 3-2-1. It's not a rocket launch, it's a booze discount!

Gup

Actually I knew that, I didn't bother to change it after I read it as I figured it wasn't that important

 

[GuppyWN]

Funniest dang thing I ever saw........

Sitting in the bar one night with a room full of peeps. One guy gets his check, looks at it, and slides it back to the bartender saying "Uh, I didn't get my discount." Bartender says "who you with?" to which the offended individual said "UNITED!" Bartender says "United doesn't get a discount here."

I wanted to laugh but I figgered he was pissed enough without my input. So remember Dan, it's 1-2-3!

Gup

 

[Lear70]

More places might if you'd call it 1-2-3 instead of 3-2-1. It's not a rocket launch, it's a booze discount!

Gup

That's some funny stuff...

 

[Dan Roman]

Funniest dang thing I ever saw........

Sitting in the bar one night with a room full of peeps. One guy gets his check, looks at it, and slides it back to the bartender saying "Uh, I didn't get my discount." Bartender says "who you with?" to which the offended individual said "UNITED!" Bartender says "United doesn't get a discount here."

I wanted to laugh but I figgered he was pissed enough without my input. So remember Dan, it's 1-2-3!

Gup

LOL I will!

 

[slaquer5]

I totally agree with you here!
Quite frankly, I give you guys a lot of credit for your management raising the industry bar in the area of how to treat employees. Whenever a case needs to be made, in negotiations or elsewhere, that treating the employees well proves to be a better investment than "the beatings will continue till the moral improves!" the example always used is SWA.
Without your example out there that treating your employees well pays handsome dividends, who knows what the less enlightened management teams might be trying.
So thanks for that AND the 3 2 1! Some places extend it to me too even though I am not SWA.

So you hate SWA well at least have a hard on for them, but pretend to be a SWA pilot.

Dan you have issues

 

[CaptainSpaz]

Just for the record...wasn't JetBlue given a $300 Million cash infusion last year by Lufthansa?

That was in 2007.

 

[waveflyer]

Dan, I like almost every post you make that doesn't touch swa- my response has been said. When it comes to swa, you're just 1, in a long line who are predicting swa's run is ending.... A very long line- funny thing is, there was a time I'd have agreed with you- now, I most definitely do not, and pride myself in seeing things clear. Is Michael Jordan prideful when he says hes the best ever? Probably. Do wilt and russell have arguments? Maybe. Will Kobe? got to get a 6th ring- Lebron- got to get a 1st-6th.

In the meantime 40 years of productivity and extremely high morale.
"IT'S THE ONLY ARGUMENT I NEED SEAN!!!"
;-)

Hater in the house.

 

[Dan Roman]

So you hate SWA well at least have a hard on for them, but pretend to be a SWA pilot.

Dan you have issues

1) If you read my posts a little more carefully I think I made it clear I don't hate SWA at all, my last post was, in fact, a tip of the hat to your industry leading management/labor relationship. I do call foul on the "SWA RULES EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS!" mentality of a few on here. But I get on this board because I find whats going on across the industry interesting. I don't hate any airline.

2) You are jumping to conclusions on "pretending I am a SWA pilot" for the 1 2 3 rule. It was a tongue in cheek comment with GUP, who I might add doesn't seem nearly as sensitive as you . What spurred it was The Monarch in PDX always gave me the 1 2 3 discount when we stayed there even though they new I was not SWA.

 

[Dan Roman]

Dan, I like almost every post you make that doesn't touch swa- my response has been said. When it comes to swa, you're just 1, in a long line who are predicting swa's run is ending.... A very long line- funny thing is, there was a time I'd have agreed with you- now, I most definitely do not, and pride myself in seeing things clear. Is Michael Jordan prideful when he says hes the best ever? Probably. Do wilt and russell have arguments? Maybe. Will Kobe? got to get a 6th ring- Lebron- got to get a 1st-6th.

In the meantime 40 years of productivity and extremely high morale.
"IT'S THE ONLY ARGUMENT I NEED SEAN!!!"
;-)

Hater in the house.

Wave, I'm not that good a writer but I thought I have made it clear enough were I have never predicted SWA's downfall in any way. Just because I point out potential vulnerabilities in response to SWA RULES! doesn't mean I think they will fail.
That's good you pride yourself in seeing things clearly, but that doesn't mean there are not different points of views that are equally valid just like there are different airlines that are doing what they do just as well in there own way.

 

[Daddy]

Is Michael Jordan prideful when he says hes the best ever? Probably. Do wilt and russell have arguments? Maybe. Will Kobe? got to get a 6th ring- Lebron- got to get a 1st-6th.

Lebron...in the same paragraph as MJ?!?! Really? REALLY???!!!??!!

Lebron COMPLETELY caved in the finals....especially in the 4th quarter. He is a chump of the highest order...one of the greatest chokers in professional sports (yes, including the entire Cubs organization of the last century). I am deeply offended by your remarks...please come back with a retraction ASAP as I believe this to be one of the most offensive things I have read on this forum.