Nice B6 history lesson

[Blue Dude]

Please explain what you mean by this? Do you know something we don't? ALPA has NO power against SWAPA!

They have a merger committee, don't they? That committee speaks for all AirTran pilots, don't they? Every AirTran pilot will become a SWA pilot, won't they? The merger is contingent on pilot integration, isn't it? Do you realize that in the same situation here that none of the above would apply? That if the *other* company, not JetBlue, decided not to operationally merge us, McK/B would *not* apply, and there's no provision in our contracts that would make it apply? That all the *other* company would have to do to fully comply with our contracts is offer us another take-it-or-leave-it PEA amendment: waive all your section 15 rights or you get a year's pay and a termination notice? That even if we were operationally merged, we are legally speaking not a pilot group, just a collection of independent contractors, and nobody is authorized to speak for us as a group... except management? That these are known critical holes in our M&A protection and that same management refused to patch them despite the insistence of the PVC in the proposed 5 docs, even in the proposed amendments?

Compared to all that, you think that "ALPA has NO power against SWAPA"? ALPA doesn't *need* to have power against SWAPA to be a far better representative than we have now; they just need a seat at the table! ALPA could be the weakest pilot representative this side of the Teamsters and they'd still run rings around our status quo. Even if they negotiated a staple, we'd be better off than what we would look forward to in the absence of a bargaining unit. Because we have no rights other than what are spelled out in the PEA, and there's far less there than meets the eye.

 

[Blue Dude]

Read the Lee Seham report:

http://www.twapilot.org/pages/ALPA Lawsuit.html


So there weren't any back door deals to woo APA? ALPA did all they could for the TWA pilots? Well, my friend, a jury in NJ didn't think so.

Interesting reading, thanks. It doesn't answer the most important question, though, since a jury has yet to determine it: would ALPA's full weight have made any effective difference to the TWA pilots? We'll know in a year or two.

It also doesn't answer the pertinent question before us: would TWA have been better off with a direct relationship or with ALPA, fully-committed or not? If the TWA pilots had our PEA's, what would have happened to them? Do you honestly think any of them would have ended up with anything other a year's pay and a pink slip, best case? And what in our PEA's would have prevented such an outcome?

 

[Lake Alice]

Read the Lee Seham report:

http://www.twapilot.org/pages/ALPA Lawsuit.html


So there weren't any back door deals to woo APA? ALPA did all they could for the TWA pilots? Well, my friend, a jury in NJ didn't think so.

Also, could someone please come up with why there aren't any Midwest Pilots (ALPA) working for the company that acquired them (Republic IBT)? I mean, weren't those Midwest pilots good standing, due paying members? Where was their "insurance policy"?

I guess the back door deals are similar to the ones many of the committee members are getting now? Or the ones a certain BoB got with stock options, or the ones 13 of the 14 190 fo's received because they could afford a lawyer. Are those the back door deals you speak of? What did you get?

 

[Dizel8]

Sorry BB,

Sounds like LUV and AAI has agreed to a tentative agreement for an SLI.

Wonder how we would have fared under the Direct Relationship?

(Heck I can't even say DR without laughing)

 

[Fubijaakr]

You will find that most guys at RAH think very highly of the ex MW guys, many of us believe they got a pretty raw deal, but they all have jobs if they want them.

That's because YOU have THEIR jobs.

I also don't have a BMW, boat, airplane, Harley, or extra marital affair either

Maybe if you had some of these things, you'd be a happier guy. Personally, I think you need to get laid.

 

[Bluejob]

deleted

 

[Fins Up]

Do you really make $250k a year?

I believe he is what we call an "RSA whore". The company sends out "RSA" notices to get pilots to pick up extra reserve days. You get paid whether you fly or not. It's a great deal - if you happen to live next to the airport and have nothing better to do with your life

The company keeps pilot staffing very low. That's why it's almost impossible to drop a trip even if you have plenty of PTO. If the RSA w************************* didn't prop up the operation, we might have the proper number of pilots on the property.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

I believe he is what we call an "RSA whore". The company sends out "RSA" notices to get pilots to pick up extra reserve days. You get paid whether you fly or not. It's a great deal - if you happen to live next to the airport and have nothing better to do with your life

The company keeps pilot staffing very low. That's why it's almost impossible to drop a trip even if you have plenty of PTO. If the RSA w************************* didn't prop up the operation, we might have the proper number of pilots on the property.

Nope, not one RSA in two years... Just straight flying, timely FLICA pickups (5hr/day credit is awesome when paired with one DH leg), and most importantly-- prudent use of PTO (pickup/drop and Vacations with 10 hours of free pay)... It can be done, and the 5 year guys now will be where I'm at in 5 years with the aircraft deliveries and upgrades).


So far this year I've been able to maintain 100+ hours of credit per month using this strategy (best month 130 hours)... I will exceed $250K easy this year since my gross was at $141K at the end of June (July 8th) pay. Surely you can see the disadvantage one would have with pay caps...

Education here: You use PTO to get time off, I use it to get PAY. Even if there is no reserve coverage, you can pick up an open trip, thereby opening up reserve coverage and then drop the trip immediately-- since now, there is reserve coverage. The PTO counts towards premium and I can do it to the tune of 11 extra hours a month and still keep my PTO balance the same for the entire year since that is my acrual rate.

 

[BeachBummer]

Nope, not one RSA in two years... Just straight flying, timely FLICA pickups (5hr/day credit is awesome when paired with one DH leg), and most importantly-- prudent use of PTO (pickup/drop and Vacations with 10 hours of free pay)... It can be done, and the 5 year guys now will be where I'm at in 5 years with the aircraft deliveries and upgrades).


So far this year I've been able to maintain 100+ hours of credit per month using this strategy (best month 130 hours)... I will exceed $250K easy this year since my gross was at $141K at the end of June (July 8th) pay. Surely you can see the disadvantage one would have with pay caps...

Education here: You use PTO to get time off, I use it to get PAY. Even if there is no reserve coverage, you can pick up an open trip, thereby opening up reserve coverage and then drop the trip immediately-- since now, there is reserve coverage. The PTO counts towards premium and I can do it to the tune of 11 extra hours a month and still keep my PTO balance the same for the entire year since that is my acrual rate.

Here is an Education:

Unions like APA, ALPA and others have negotiated credit caps when management wants to eliminate jobs. IF we cap credit at 85 vs the std 100 and we were going to furlough 100 and downgrade 50 you would only lose 70 and downgrade 35. It could be your job. Or your senior enough that you don't give a @rap. It won't cost you your job or your $250k.

Here's another bit! WE'RE BUYING PLANES! Hiring and understaffed. There will be no credit cap unless managment F's this thing up.

Hey here's another tid bit. Did you know that the 200 or so hrs of PTO you have saved up is useless if your out of work for more than 7 days? YEA that is correct. Read the book. You can apply for FMLA. Your 401k can't even help you. I was shocked when I read the handbook. hope you don't fall ill or have an accident. Those that have are not doing well. Make sure that STD LTD is up to snuff too. That's a fun process as well.

Why are we in the same pool as rampers, gate agents, flight attendants and customer service. AH, I know why, because it is illeagal for them to give any employee group something different unless they are leagally separate from the rest... How would one separate themselves from others...

And your right, I use PTO (personal time off) to spend more time with my family and less time at work. Either way you slice it, it's $$$. Spend it how you want.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Here is an Education:

Unions like APA, ALPA and others have negotiated credit caps when management wants to eliminate jobs. IF we cap credit at 85 vs the std 100 and we were going to furlough 100 and downgrade 50 you would only lose 70 and downgrade 35. It could be your job. Or your senior enough that you don't give a @rap. It won't cost you your job or your $250k.

Here's another bit! WE'RE BUYING PLANES! Hiring and understaffed. There will be no credit cap unless managment F's this thing up.

Hey here's another tid bit. Did you know that the 200 or so hrs of PTO you have saved up is useless if your out of work for more than 7 days? YEA that is correct. Read the book. You can apply for FMLA. Your 401k can't even help you. I was shocked when I read the handbook. hope you don't fall ill or have an accident. Those that have are not doing well. Make sure that STD LTD is up to snuff too. That's a fun process as well.

Why are we in the same pool as rampers, gate agents, flight attendants and customer service. AH, I know why, because it is illeagal for them to give any employee group something different unless they are leagally separate from the rest... How would one separate themselves from others...

And your right, I use PTO (personal time off) to spend more time with my family and less time at work. Either way you slice it, it's $$$. Spend it how you want.

Yes my friend, what a shocker... But isn't that what STD/LTD>LOL for anyway? It's incredible that even some Captains elect not to have STD!!! I've been on STD for two weeks-- the process worked just fine and I was able to utilize PTO without any problems. Losing one pilot to a furlough is one too many. Your example still sacrificies a few. 12 years going now and no furloughs (that's quite an accomplishment for a major airline)!!!-- All the benefits, pay, work rules, and retirement ALPA promises to improve won't mean a thing if you don't have a job...

 

[Blue Dude]

Bayou, nobody here - pro- or anti-ALPA - wants pay caps. And I mean nobody. I've never heard that except from somebody trying it as a no-voter scare tactic. Darn near everyone picks time up to supplement his award. Maybe not to the extent you do, but pay caps here are counter-productive to everyone. It would be different if we were overstaffed, maybe considering layoffs, in which case pay caps would be a last ditch defense against junior pilots losing their jobs altogether so that senior pilots could keep their income up. Your guess is as good as mine whether that will ever happen here or whether it would be approved by the pilot group. I do know that there were a few senior pilots here who wanted to lay off pilots in 2008 to keep the bid divisors high. Thankfully, I think they represented a very small minority, and would have been prohibited by the PEA's anyway. Score one for the PEA.

Bummer, you're not 100% correct that PTO is useless while on leave, because you can still sell back PTO while on leave. The catch is only the PTO hrs in excess of 100 hrs in your bank are sold at premium. Hours below 100 are sold at base. Supposedly there's been a PIN in the works that would fix this, with retro pay for those pilots who sold PTO at base, but it's been "just around the corner" since sometime last year and it's still AWOL. PTO sellback isn't a fix for very poor disability benefits, but it's better than the nothing you seem to think it is.

 

[BeachBummer]

Dude, you are correct... I stand corrected.

 

[Fins Up]

Nope, not one RSA in two years...

Glad to hear that.

 

[Lake Alice]

Yes my friend, what a shocker... But isn't that what STD/LTD>LOL for anyway? It's incredible that even some Captains elect not to have STD!!! I've been on STD for two weeks-- the process worked just fine and I was able to utilize PTO without any problems. Losing one pilot to a furlough is one too many. Your example still sacrificies a few.

12 years going now and no furloughs (that's quite an accomplishment for a major airline)!!!-- All the benefits, pay, work rules, and retirement ALPA promises to improve won't mean a thing if you don't have a job...

First, Jetblue hasn't needed to furlough so that argument is moot. Next if it did furlough how are going to be recalled? In order of seniority of based on you kissing the DR's butt?
Your last statement is so true it's scary. YOUR PVC's vote in favor if the 5 documents has sealed our fate. Jetblue's ability to buy or start and alter-ego airline means we won't have a job. Lest you forget that section 15 allows Jebtlue to keep operations separate and ultimately use our a/c on the new airlines routes. Reread section 15 and then watch the kevin Fitzpatrick video. Kevin Fitzpatrick at 104:30 says our current PEA lacks this protection. Section 15 states acquired by another air carrier,the underline sentence needed to say: acquired by another air carrier or an Entity that controls an air carrier or any other Successor, Entity or Affiliate. This means that a Transactional Event under our PEA would trigger Mc Bond only IF the transaction was for the ‘combination of multiple air carriers into a singe air carrier “and” involves a transfer of ownership control of (i) or (ii).

The company wrote: …

1) event of any airline merger, or
2) the purchase of 50% or more of the stock of one carrier by another.

The company is trying to mislead the pilot group into believing that an operational merger is not required by Mc Bond when in FACT it is the first condition of the two step trigger. The company wants you to believe this because our current PEA and the PVC’s 5 documents FAILED to secure operational merger in any agreed upon or road showed documents. The company on tape at the road shows REFUSED operational merger. Since the Direction Relationship has proven to be a failure and will not provide the first trigger of Mc Bond, the process has to change the words within the statute to make it appear you are protected when in FACT you are NOT.

Look, you're a nice guy but you and the rest of the BoB's are fighting to protect a failed process instead of fighting to protect our careers.

 

[Dizel8]

The few guys who advocated furloughs to keep their bid divisor up, to a man they were anti ALPA.

So, stick that in your pipe and smoke it, BB!

Besides, think about it for a sec, BB is so worried about caps, a non issue, something tells me he would want to furlough if it impacted his way of life. Can't think of any bluepilots who believes Mr. BB would be in their court should the proverbial "" hit the fan.