Airtran pilots, what about this?

[texman]

Thanks guy's.

 

[Cometman]

Actually, the Process Agreement very specifically SAYS that AAI ALPA will negotiate with SWA management for, among other things, the adjustment of our pay rates to yours during the integration process. SWAPA won't be involved in that.

That said, to answer OYS' earlier question, I don't believe SWA management will do that before the SLI negotiating process is done. There are several reasons, but primarily it's a financial issue. That's a lot of money and until our revenue is increased to help offset the increased pay (our fares are 6-7% lower than yours), I don't believe you'll see higher AAI pay rates.

I also believe it will be held as an incentive to git er done. Just my .02 cents,,,

Is there a pay scale for the 717 under SWAPA? If not how can ALPA negoiate a pay scale for the 717 that would be binding on SWAPA? Are you saying that SWA can give Airtran the same pay rate for the 717 as SWAPA has for the 737 without SWAPA's ok?

 

[GuppyWN]

The answer is no.

Gup

 

[funnyman12]

Had the opportunity to chat with Mike Van de Ven and he seemed pretty interested in the C- series as a future plane. Not wise to have the 717 on a different pay scale for this could lead to a justification of a future plane to be on the 717 pay rate. Also had the privilege of talking with Gary Kelly. He said the goal is to have this integration be an example of how to do it best. If you were GK and there were unions fighting, how would you make it work? There are many innovative ways.

 

[jonjuan]

Why interesting? He's spot on. SWA is free to negotiate pay rates, ammendments to contracts, etc. any time the company wants and a group of employees is willing to listen. It's been done often.

However, now way GK will give the swapa contract until he absolutely has to. If he had done so Jan 1, sw would have lost money Q1.

 

[funnyman12]

SW would have priced for the labor costs increase to still make a profit. Jonjon watch that thought process....could bit you in future negotiations. The ol airline would have lost money if we gave you a pay raise claim has been used by company management teams since the beginning of days.

 

[Lear70]

Is there a pay scale for the 717 under SWAPA? If not how can ALPA negoiate a pay scale for the 717 that would be binding on SWAPA? Are you saying that SWA can give Airtran the same pay rate for the 717 as SWAPA has for the 737 without SWAPA's ok?

There is a separate paragraph for that in the Process Agreement.

It appears to be written that way to bring the AAI pilots up to SWA pay rates and work rules during integration so that there aren't people at AAI on a B scale still operating on the AAI side while other pilots go to Dallas and start making SWA wages for the year or more it takes to get everyone trained and under one ops cert.

Otherwise people would be screaming bloody murder, especially the 737 overwater crews that will be the last to go over per BJ. All those interim benefit and compensation changes to our CBA are ALPA's to negotiate. Permanent rates are SWAPA's. It's pretty clear in the Process Agreement.

There's nothing stopping them from doing certain parts early (we hear pass bennies on SWA are next month), but I personally doubt the compensation will happen sooner than SOC, much less sooner than SLI, but what do I know,,,

 

[Cometman]

There is a separate paragraph for that in the Process Agreement.

It appears to be written that way to bring the AAI pilots up to SWA pay rates and work rules during integration so that there aren't people at AAI on a B scale still operating on the AAI side while other pilots go to Dallas and start making SWA wages for the year or more it takes to get everyone trained and under one ops cert.

Otherwise people would be screaming bloody murder, especially the 737 overwater crews that will be the last to go over per BJ. All those interim benefit and compensation changes to our CBA are ALPA's to negotiate. Permanent rates are SWAPA's. It's pretty clear in the Process Agreement.

There's nothing stopping them from doing certain parts early (we hear pass bennies on SWA are next month), but I personally doubt the compensation will happen sooner than SOC, much less sooner than SLI, but what do I know,,,

That sounds good for Airtran. ALPA gets you SWAPA pay rates until everybody is the same. That would take SWAPA out of the picture to prevent holding out. It would also mean that Airtran would get the same pay for the 737 and 717 as SWAPA gets without being represented by SWAPA. Who cares if SWA left you operating seperatly as long as ALPA gets the same benefits as SWAPA. I assume you would also get the raises that SWAPA will be getting? One other question, would Airtran also get all of the other benefits that SWAPA has like retirement etc.? It also means that SWA would be operating a new aircraft without giving their approval and that when it does come under their contraol the pay rate will already be determined.

 

[GoodTimes]

Crazy talk

 

[Ty Webb]

One other question, would Airtran also get all of the other benefits that SWAPA has like retirement etc.?

AirTran has a higher retirement contribution than SWA- 10.5% of wages earned, plus a small 401K match

 

[General Lee]

Crazy talk

And it keeps going. I am glad OYS brought this up, it needs to be addressed. Why won't Southwest just pay the Airtran people the same as Southwest pilots NOW? Our management did it as quickly as possible, with the Joint Contract coming before the SLI as OYS stated. Seems more civil that way, less contentious, and can take the sting out of the eventual SLI. Hmmm.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[GuppyWN]

AirTran has a higher retirement contribution than SWA- 10.5% of wages earned, plus a small 401K match

What's more?

10.5% of $139/hr or
9.3% of $209

Gup

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

And it keeps going. I am glad OYS brought this up, it needs to be addressed. Why won't Southwest just pay the Airtran people the same as Southwest pilots NOW? Our management did it as quickly as possible, with the Joint Contract coming before the SLI as OYS stated. Seems more civil that way, less contentious, and can take the sting out of the eventual SLI. Hmmm.



Bye Bye---General Lee

The answer here is that it isn't an ALPA-ALPA combination. The four party process agreement wasn't written that way for whatever reason. Ask the UAL/CAL guys how the ALPA system has worked out for them so far. Your and your DAL pal's sick attempts to sow the seeds of discontent are tiresome. General you and OYS must be very afraid. Even after screwing their shareholders, debtors, and employees by going into bankruptcy your carrier lost $318 million in the last quater alone. If I worked at a carrier with those financials that was about to face more competition via a combined AAI/SWA I would be scared too. Is it that, or the fact fact something very positive is happening to the lowly (in your eyes) AAI pilots? It must kill you that soon they will be making more than you. Yeah Yeah six legs to Lubbock.

 

[Kharma Police]

That sounds good for Airtran. ALPA gets you SWAPA pay rates until everybody is the same. That would take SWAPA out of the picture to prevent holding out. It would also mean that Airtran would get the same pay for the 737 and 717 as SWAPA gets without being represented by SWAPA. Who cares if SWA left you operating seperatly as long as ALPA gets the same benefits as SWAPA. I assume you would also get the raises that SWAPA will be getting? One other question, would Airtran also get all of the other benefits that SWAPA has like retirement etc.? It also means that SWA would be operating a new aircraft without giving their approval and that when it does come under their contraol the pay rate will already be determined.

Now you guys can understand why the ATN ALPA lawyers wanted more time and a second look at the process agreement. They aren't amateurs.

 

[Empennage]

And it keeps going. I am glad OYS brought this up, it needs to be addressed. Why won't Southwest just pay the Airtran people the same as Southwest pilots NOW? Our management did it as quickly as possible, with the Joint Contract coming before the SLI as OYS stated. Seems more civil that way, less contentious, and can take the sting out of the eventual SLI. Hmmm.



Bye Bye---General Lee

You forgot your footnote GL. "see alpa merger policy"

It's ok.

 

[Empennage]

You forgot your footnote GL. "see alpa merger policy"

It's ok.

I know! I know! I'm not feeding.

I was trying to help him.

 

[Empennage]

I will answer this for him. He does have a personal interest in this. Being on the bottom of the list at DAL he is afraid of what a combined SWA AAI will do to his carrier and career. His only hope is to try and sow the seeds for a SWA civil war. A splintered disfunctional pilot group works to his advantage.

Notice to OYS: I shut you down on one thread. I will continue to counter you devisive rhetoric no matter where you post.


Luv,
Ghetto

Oh snap! Ghetto it is your civic duty. Get on it!

You have to admit, he makes it fairly easy.

 

[say again]

You Delta kids are pathetically funny!

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Oh snap! Ghetto it is your civic duty. Get on it!

You have to admit, he makes it fairly easy.

He never answers me. He just runs to another hole every time I show up. In his case maybe the truth hurts.



Luv,
Ghetto

 

[Empennage]

He never answers me. He just runs to another hole every time I show up. In his case maybe the truth hurts.



Luv,
Ghetto

On a serious note, they should volunteer for DAL ALPA. There would be a mutual benefit.

Then again, this thread would actually not be as amusing as it currently is.