Horizon

[CX880]

Non-Union pay and work rules.

You can't be the lowest bidder forever. Mesa is coming for your contracts, and they've got a better price point. It's Horizon Planes and Horizon routes. Skywest is supplying nothing but pilots.

Sooner or later Jerry is going to decide YOU are overpaid.......On that day, you'll have nothing to say but: "Yessa Massa, Ima overpaid! Thank you for overpaying me all these years. Please cut MY pay Massa, yousea gotta buy another vacation house! Don't worry about MY family, massa!"

Do you want to be the equivalent of border-jumping, undercutting, job thief; stealing work from people who fought and earned a decent wage, or do you want to stand up and fight and earn a decent wage for yourself?
.

From what I understand skywest bought those planes. Therefore they aren't Horizon planes anymore. I think that's how things work when you buy things, you become the new owner. It's called diversification, obviously Alaska doesn't want to be a one regional partner anymore. If you want stability then you should quit flying for the regionals.....

 

[XPOO]

From what I understand skywest bought those planes. Therefore they aren't Horizon planes anymore. I think that's how things work when you buy things, you become the new owner. It's called diversification, obviously Alaska doesn't want to be a one regional partner anymore. If you want stability then you should quit flying for the regionals.....

Bingo!

 

[ASABound]

John peace is an idiot and has no clue of what is happening in this industry. Is he probably under some member of mgmt's desk ....... If u know what I mean. More importantly he isn't representative of the feelings of the other 99% of asa/xjt pilots. Get a life John......

 

[Fubijaakr]

From what I understand skywest bought those planes. Therefore they aren't Horizon planes anymore......

Incorrect. The last 7 CRJs are being LEASED from AAG, under AAG operational control and flying AAG routes using outsourced Skywest non-Union pilots.

That's why AAG pilots in general and QX pilots in particular are upset.

 

[johnpeace]

John peace is an idiot and has no clue of what is happening in this industry. Is he probably under some member of mgmt's desk ....... If u know what I mean. More importantly he isn't representative of the feelings of the other 99% of asa/xjt pilots. Get a life John......

On the contrary...I just think it's stupid for pilots to be finger-pointing at each other as if WE have anything to do with it.

Bad form to gloat over someone else's loss, OK...fair enough. But the Skywest guy on the van didn't have anything to do with it.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Incorrect. The last 7 CRJs are being LEASED from AAG, under AAG operational control and flying AAG routes using outsourced Skywest non-Union pilots.

That's why AAG pilots in general and QX pilots in particular are upset.

Stange...I just did a registation search on the aircraft and am showing Wells Fargo as the owner of those planes now... Im pretty sure SkyWest will have operational control of those planes!

 

[Fubijaakr]

Alright, I should have said "subleased" from AAG and AAG will have operational control of the jets. The prospective schedule has been published.

 

[propsarebest]

AAG NEVER owned the CRJ-700's (same with the Q400). They were originally leased from CIT Aerospace. A few years ago, CIT sold a bunch of assets to WF, including a ton of airplanes. AAG cannot maintain operational control over an airplane that they (AS or QX) don't operate. Skywest flies a schedule according to whomever they contract with. The final movement of the airplane lies totally with Skywest.

 

[pipejockey]

From what I understand skywest bought those planes. Therefore they aren't Horizon planes anymore. I think that's how things work when you buy things, you become the new owner. It's called diversification, obviously Alaska doesn't want to be a one regional partner anymore. If you want stability then you should quit flying for the regionals.....

Brilliant! So why didn't anybody else think of that? Everyone should just go to the Major Airlines where the only other airline jobs exist, plus relish in all that stability.

Oh, that's right, THERE AREN'T ANY JOBS AT THE MAJOR AIRLINES because the regionals are flying more and more and larger and larger planes, nor will there ever be any stability at the major airlines either.

 

[mrnolmts]

AAG NEVER owned the CRJ-700's (same with the Q400). They were originally leased from CIT Aerospace. A few years ago, CIT sold a bunch of assets to WF, including a ton of airplanes. AAG cannot maintain operational control over an airplane that they (AS or QX) don't operate. Skywest flies a schedule according to whomever they contract with. The final movement of the airplane lies totally with Skywest.

Sorry to burst your bubble there, but every Q400 from 415 on is owned by Horizon Air Industries, and so is 618 and 619. Now, AAG is Horizon as Horizon is AAG, so I guess you can argue that AAG owns the airplanes. The notion that Alaska owns Horizon or that Alaska owns those airplanes is, at least on paper, incorrect. The RJ's are sub-leased to Skywest. I would assume that Skywest have operational control over them, unless there is something in the CPA that says otherwise. However, given the fact that they are sub-leased indicates to me that AAG has the ultimate financial responsibility with regard to the registered owner, whether it be Wells Fargo or some other entity.

 

[Erlanger]

One more interesting thing that may say who owns the airplanes is that Skywest planes don't have dual FMS's. Skywest has decided to keep the dual FMS system in the airplanes. Skywest likes consistancy in it's fleet but will be keeping the FMs setup in the Horizon planes. Whenever Skywest had gotten planes from other regionals, Skywest has always spent the money and reconfigured those planes from whatever differences they are to match the other Skywest planes. I would think that if the airplanes were truly going to be Skywest planes they would configure these planes to be like the rest of the fleet.

 

[Hamburger]

On the contrary...I just think it's stupid for pilots to be finger-pointing at each other as if WE have anything to do with it.

Bad form to gloat over someone else's loss, OK...fair enough. But the Skywest guy on the van didn't have anything to do with it.

Absolutely true.
And when Jerry gives the keys to "his" plane to some Guatemalan pilot who flies the same routes he flew last week in the same plane for 50 pesos a day, he may start to get it.
Healthy competition is great, but I'd love to hear any of you tell us all how great it is that American Manufacturing moving to China is a good thing.

What's it going to be? You either want a good job with good pay and understand that illegals and outsourcing jobs hurts Americans or you want to be the guy that the jobs are outsourced to.

Oh, that's right, THERE AREN'T ANY JOBS AT THE MAJOR AIRLINES because the regionals are flying more and more and larger and larger planes, nor will there ever be any stability at the major airlines either.

Guess what, dip********************. There are jobs at Major airlines and if you think there is stability at regionals, then you are a fool.
We are all in this together. As soon as you and your kind can get your heads out of your collective asses, you might grasp that we can ALL be mainline and that WE have the power. No pilots, no Airlines. But as long as pilots are willing to undercut each other, Management wins.

 

[XPOO]

One more interesting thing that may say who owns the airplanes is that Skywest planes don't have dual FMS's. Skywest has decided to keep the dual FMS system in the airplanes. Skywest likes consistancy in it's fleet but will be keeping the FMs setup in the Horizon planes. Whenever Skywest had gotten planes from other regionals, Skywest has always spent the money and reconfigured those planes from whatever differences they are to match the other Skywest planes. I would think that if the airplanes were truly going to be Skywest planes they would configure these planes to be like the rest of the fleet.

This is only somewhat true, aircraft with single GPS installations:

340CA, 367CA, 368CA, 668CA, 609SK, 611SK, 613SK, 614SK

The other 75 CRJ7s all have dual GPS

 

[Fubijaakr]

And when Jerry gives the keys to "his" plane to some Guatemalan pilot who flies the same routes he flew last week in the same plane for 50 pesos a day, he may start to get it....

Guess what, dip********************. There are jobs at Major airlines and if you think there is stability at regionals, then you are a fool.
We are all in this together. As soon as you and your kind can get your heads out of your collective asses, you might grasp that we can ALL be mainline and that WE have the power. No pilots, no Airlines. But as long as pilots are willing to undercut each other, Management wins.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

Sorry to burst your bubble there, but every Q400 from 415 on is owned by Horizon Air Industries, and so is 618 and 619. Now, AAG is Horizon as Horizon is AAG, so I guess you can argue that AAG owns the airplanes.... The RJ's are sub-leased to Skywest. I would assume that Skywest have operational control over them, unless there is something in the CPA that says otherwise. However, given the fact that they are sub-leased indicates to me that AAG has the ultimate financial responsibility with regard to the registered owner, whether it be Wells Fargo or some other entity.

Thank you. You expressed it better than I did. When I refer to AAG, I refer to QX and AS under one umbrella as independent entities.

 

[pipejockey]

Guess what, dip********************. There are jobs at Major airlines and if you think there is stability at regionals, then you are a fool.
We are all in this together. As soon as you and your kind can get your heads out of your collective asses, you might grasp that we can ALL be mainline and that WE have the power. No pilots, no Airlines. But as long as pilots are willing to undercut each other, Management wins.

Was there any reason to swear at me? I guess people aren't reading my posts accurately because I can say the word "white" and everyone will be adamant that I just said "black". I NEVER EVER said the regionals were stable. I HAVE ALWAYS said that if you are flying a plane all painted up in United colors (whatever the h*ll that is these days) or are flying a plane in Continental colors (again, whatever the h*ll that is these days) or a plane in Delta colors, or a plane in American colors, you ought to d*mn well be employed by the airline whose name is painted on the side. But with the lack of unity among ALL airline pilots and our prehistoric and anti-labor business laws we have in this country, we have a bunch of bottom feeders doing 53% of the US domestic flying. And management wants to put more 90 seaters and now the new C series on regional property.

And where are all these jobs at mainline. Id love to know how many new jobs have actually become available at mainline since 9-11-01 that haven't since been furloughed and how many became available at the puke regionals? There just aren't enough jobs at mainline for all the rj folks that want to be there.