Midwest Flight Crew Members get shafted again

[Secret Squirrel]

Who??????

 

[MCDU]

Genius plan! Spend a billion dollars to buy an airline that makes money, control it and let it go out of business, waisting millions of dollars in the process....this is a plan worthy of Doctor Evil...."one meeellion dollars"....sorry...I digress. Wait a minute.....you should be an airline manager.

C'mon.....seriously...if Gary Kelly wanted to do that, wouldn't it be cheaper just to go head to head or wait out AAI if they thought we would go under any time soon. I'm not following your logic.

The logic is that they are taking out the competition. A profitable growing competition. SWA has higher salaries and benfits . Airtran is growing and a threat to the long term viability of SWA. So what do they do, they get rid of the competition before it gets to big and a problem to SWA.


M

 

[MCDU]

Who??????

Here is a small example:


UPS bought Emery (Menlo)and Challenge Air Cargo. I wonder what happened to those carriers.

M

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Here is a small example:


UPS bought Emery (Menlo)and Challenge Air Cargo. I wonder what happened to those carriers.

M

Here's another example:
America West bought Us Airways.
Look at what happened to America West. A perfectly good airline brought down by the lower pay/loss of pension/lousy service of Us Airways.

 

[Lear70]

I don't know the specifics of this case or whether integration is going to be required in the case of SWA/AAI. We have all seen people posting as SWA guys that suggest they want to see GH sell off parts and not integrate any AAI pilots. I want to say to the AAI guys on here that I don't think this is what the average SWA guy is hoping for. I just want a fair integration. I know we disagree on what that will look like. I have NO desire to see anyone lose a job or any of the nastiness that sometimes gets talked about on here. At the end of the day we are labor. Highly trained and skilled but labor nonetheless.

I don't think any of this will come to pass. I just wanted to get this out there before someone comes on here half cocked and starts threatening AAI guys about it.

Thank you for a calm, well-thought, and balanced post. Somewhat of a rarity at Flightinfo... :beer:

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled mud slinging.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Here's another example:
America West bought Us Airways.
Look at what happened to America West. A perfectly good airline brought down by the lower pay/loss of pension/lousy service of Us Airways.

Dude! We were being playing nice! Did you you have to come in with that?

" George ....do you mind....we're trying to have a civilization here! ".


MCDU, will all MCDue respect (did you like that) If you spend 1.4 bill to buy a profitable airline, why take the time to run it in the ground when you can generate revenue immediately by integrating it your own operation.

 

[roughneck]

If you spend 1.4 bill to buy a profitable airline, why take the time to run it in the ground when you can generate revenue immediately by integrating it your own operation.

That is the misconception. The value is in your physical airport assets and slots. He gets that regardless of whether he combines the operations or not.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Airtran is growing and a threat to the long term viability of SWA.

Do you actually read your rants before you hit the send button????

 

[Wesb737fo]

That is the misconception. The value is in your physical airport assets and slots. He gets that regardless of whether he combines the operations or not.

So....if it goes down like that, I suppose that will make you happy?

 

[roughneck]

So....if it goes down like that, I suppose that will make you happy?

If this acquisition goes through AirTran will not grow anymore so the threat of an alter-ego is zilch. If we can bring them over without screwing up our company then I am all for it. Time will tell if that is the case.

 

[27 driver]

Here is a small example:


UPS bought Emery (Menlo)and Challenge Air Cargo. I wonder what happened to those carriers.

M

Both examples have nothing even remotely similar to this one. Emery (Menlo) did not operate an airline they used all contract when UPS bought them and the deal with Challenge was strictly for the assets not including the airplanes. GK has publicly stated on several occasions that the employees come with this deal.

 

[roughneck]

GK has publicly stated on several occasions that the employees come with this deal.

I don't think that is in question. You will come with the deal but that doesn't guarantee you a job with SWA. You will be an AirTran employee under your existing contract until he decides otherwise. He may never make that decision.

 

[St. Nic]

The Southwest pilots control their merger. The United pilots control their merger- if they ever grow some and decide to put the CAL pilots in their place. Take a look at the USAir merger and the rulings from the 9th circuit appeals court and now the Supreme Court. McCaskill- Bond is just a feel good "law" with little real world relevance... Arbitration is just a suggestion- there is no such thing about final and binding!

 

[Scope out RJ's]

The Southwest pilots control their merger. The United pilots control their merger- if they ever grow some and decide to put the CAL pilots in their place. Take a look at the USAir merger and the rulings from the 9th circuit appeals court and now the Supreme Court. McCaskill- Bond is just a feel good "law" with little real world relevance... Arbitration is just a suggestion- there is no such thing about final and binding!

...........says the 19 year e190 f/o working for walmart wages.:laugh::laugh:

 

[roughneck]

Mr. Scope is out to lunch. Call back later.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Mr. Scope is out to lunch. Call back later.

Mrs roughneck is out of brains. Please try to be funny later.

 

[roughneck]

...........says the 19 year e190 f/o working for walmart wages.
__________________

.............says the 50 year old 717 RJ pilot working for walmart wages.

 

[St. Nic]

Mr rj pilot is a littler crazed about the lack of success in his piloting career, hence the attacks

 

[Scope out RJ's]

.............says the 50 year old 717 RJ pilot working for walmart wages.

........says the unemployed 45 year old regional f/o working at walmart, while living in his mom's basement.

Mr rj pilot is a littler crazed about the lack of success in his piloting career, hence the attacks

......................says the 19 year furloughed us airways f/o.
Here, st. nic I got a joke for you.
your payrates.
16 year 190 f/o = $55/hr
16 year 290 cpt = $99/hr.

Congrats, even Republic makes more than you guys!:laugh:

 

[Lear70]

5 year 717 F/O $90 an hour.

Our 717 F/O's make close to 6 figures just flying their lines (training overrides and per diem push it to 6 figures easily). Show me a Walmart employee lower than a V.P. level who makes that...

Just so we're comparing apples to apples.

 

[DeucesWild]

deleted.

 

[Lear70]

I didn't start the thread drift, was just correcting someone who thought that AAI pilots got paid like Walmart employees...

 

[texman]

5 year 717 F/O $90 an hour.

Our 717 F/O's make close to 6 figures just flying their lines (training overrides and per diem push it to 6 figures easily). Show me a Walmart employee lower than a V.P. level who makes that...

Just so we're comparing apples to apples.

Just think when a 5th year fo at AT without per diem and overrides makes a cool 150K at SWA.LOL

 

[FlyinGuy]

Tex, quit trying to show them that their apples are really oranges!!!

 

[Lear70]

Just think when a 5th year fo at AT without per diem and overrides makes a cool 150K at SWA.LOL

I certainly won't complain (and doubt many of our F/O's will, either). No argument your contract is better than ours, hands-down.

Tex, quit trying to show them that their apples are really oranges!!!

Ummm, I think you missed the context. Wasn't comparing our pay to SWA's, was responding to Roughneck when he asserted that a 717 FO at AAI was working for Walmart wages, in this quote:

.............says the 50 year old 717 RJ pilot working for walmart wages.

 

[roughneck]

Sorry about that last comment. It was rude, unprofessional and out of line.

 

[Lear70]

Nah, I didn't take offense. It's Flightinfo, a lot of things come across a little snarky, me included, even when we don't mean to. :beer:

 

[Whataburger]

If the swa-airtran arbitrator gives a $h.t about flight attendant seniority then we are all screwed. who cares!

On the contrary, historically the FA's Union Leadership has done a much better job of protecting/taking care of themselves than the pilots'. Can we "me too" whatever they get?

 

[27 driver]

I don't think that is in question. You will come with the deal but that doesn't guarantee you a job with SWA. You will be an AirTran employee under your existing contract until he decides otherwise. He may never make that decision.

That may be so. I doubt it though. I know you don't think so but he has to honor our contract. That is part of the deal. I take GK for his word so I don't see a alter ego here. YMMV.

 

[scoreboardII]

On the contrary, historically the FA's Union Leadership has done a much better job of protecting/taking care of themselves than the pilots'. Can we "me too" whatever they get?

I also wouldn't doubt they are the ones to gum the works up the most as they begin to realize what their seniority will look like in the end, whichever way that may fall.