Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Midwest Flight Crew Members get shafted again

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

StaySeated

IBT does not represent ME
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
782
I am wondering if this will effect the SWA-Airtran SLI negotiations?

The United States District Court, Eastern District of Wisconsin recently reversed an earlier decision and found in favor of the IBT.

The Midwest Flight Attendants were arguing that they are entitled to seniority integration pursuant to McCaskill-Bond, the IBT argued that they were not covered.

The court agreed with the IBT based upon the fact that the RAH acquisition of Midwest, according to the court, was not a covered transaction.

"Accordingly, McCaskill-Bond implicitly incorporates the CAB’s corresponding definition of a “merger” as “joint action by the two carriers whereby they unify, consolidate, merge, coordinate or pool in whole or in part their separate airline facilities or any of the operations or services previously
performed by them through such separate facilities.”

So, the FA's get shafted and have to start over as new-hires. I can only imagine what the IBT has in store for the Midwest pilots.

The irony of the situation is the fact that the Midwest pilots just participated in the SLI arbitration. That very arbitration was based upon Section 3 of Allegheny Mowhawk, "the "seniority integration" Labor Protective Provision and the only substantive LPP adopted by McCaskill-Bond."

So the Midwest pilots were covered by A-M and M-B, but the FA's are not? That seems odd.

The only reason I mention SWA-Airtran is leverage. SWAPA just gained some more.

When does the link between "merger" and "acquisition" end?

The IBT argued, successfully in this case, that a "covered transaction" only includes two or more "covered air carriers". They specifically mentioned the fact that RAH, a holding company, acquired Midwest LLC, another holding company. Neither of which are a covered air carrier.

Seems like a complete stretch to me, but at least one court bought it and swallowed the hook.
 
Thanks man, just when things were calming down a bit...........

I'm guessing 20 pages at a minimum.
 
Do you have the source link to this ruling? Tried some google searches but came up empty. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
If the swa-airtran arbitrator gives a $h.t about flight attendant seniority then we are all screwed. who cares!
 
I think Yoyoma missed the point.

Doesn't matter though, I think this one's a stretch to the point of being pointless.

I wasn't posting specifically about SWA-Airtran, I just thought it was interesting. It is a matter of opinion, but the IBT's argument had nothing to do with the financial condition of Midwest. They specifically argued that holding companies are not covered. I don't think that is a stretch at all, but again it is all just a matter of opinion.
 
I wasn't posting specifically about SWA-Airtran, I just thought it was interesting. It is a matter of opinion, but the IBT's argument had nothing to do with the financial condition of Midwest. They specifically argued that holding companies are not covered. I don't think that is a stretch at all, but again it is all just a matter of opinion.

No expert here but after reading the ruling the key point that stands out on page four is that RAH was buying the assets of a failing airline and that there would be no duplication of routes because Midwest airplanes would return to Boeing thereby it didn't fit the provisions of merging two operations covered under the protections of AM/BM. This is not like SWA-AAi, but your post does have some merit regarding why the Midwest pilots are covered but not the flight attendants.
 
So somebody who knows, tell me again what Guadalupe is and how the deal is being structured.
 
Guadalupe Holdings is a Nevada corporation that is a wholly owned sub of SWA. AirTran holdings is being acquired and then merged into Guadalupe Holdings with the Lady Guadalupe taking on the new name AirTran.

AirTran will then be merged with a Texas corporation, Sub LLC, and will retain the name of AirTran Holdings as a wholly owned sub of SWA. The SEC filings do not contain any details or plan for merging AirTran into SWA.

They will be a wholly owned sub.

http://www.faqs.org/sec-filings/100927/SOUTHWEST-AIRLINES-CO_8-K/dex21.htm
 
I don't know the specifics of this case or whether integration is going to be required in the case of SWA/AAI. We have all seen people posting as SWA guys that suggest they want to see GH sell off parts and not integrate any AAI pilots. I want to say to the AAI guys on here that I don't think this is what the average SWA guy is hoping for. I just want a fair integration. I know we disagree on what that will look like. I have NO desire to see anyone lose a job or any of the nastiness that sometimes gets talked about on here. At the end of the day we are labor. Highly trained and skilled but labor nonetheless.

I don't think any of this will come to pass. I just wanted to get this out there before someone comes on here half cocked and starts threatening AAI guys about it.
 
Thanks man, just when things were calming down a bit...........

I'm guessing 20 pages at a minimum.

Yup. We will take are AT bro's. It won't happen like this. As much as we LUV each other on this board, or have a hate luv relationship. I wouldn't want to see any AT guy + his family on the street.
 
Isn't this the first court to define McCaskill-Bond

Will this end up in the appeals court? Could this definition of "Merger vs Acquisition" be a game changer??? Very interesting....


I am wondering if this will effect the SWA-Airtran SLI negotiations?

The United States District Court, Eastern District of Wisconsin recently reversed an earlier decision and found in favor of the IBT.

The Midwest Flight Attendants were arguing that they are entitled to seniority integration pursuant to McCaskill-Bond, the IBT argued that they were not covered.

The court agreed with the IBT based upon the fact that the RAH acquisition of Midwest, according to the court, was not a covered transaction.

"Accordingly, McCaskill-Bond implicitly incorporates the CAB’s corresponding definition of a “merger” as “joint action by the two carriers whereby they unify, consolidate, merge, coordinate or pool in whole or in part their separate airline facilities or any of the operations or services previously
performed by them through such separate facilities.”

So, the FA's get shafted and have to start over as new-hires. I can only imagine what the IBT has in store for the Midwest pilots.

The irony of the situation is the fact that the Midwest pilots just participated in the SLI arbitration. That very arbitration was based upon Section 3 of Allegheny Mowhawk, "the "seniority integration" Labor Protective Provision and the only substantive LPP adopted by McCaskill-Bond."

So the Midwest pilots were covered by A-M and M-B, but the FA's are not? That seems odd.

The only reason I mention SWA-Airtran is leverage. SWAPA just gained some more.

When does the link between "merger" and "acquisition" end?

The IBT argued, successfully in this case, that a "covered transaction" only includes two or more "covered air carriers". They specifically mentioned the fact that RAH, a holding company, acquired Midwest LLC, another holding company. Neither of which are a covered air carrier.

Seems like a complete stretch to me, but at least one court bought it and swallowed the hook.
 
Will this end up in the appeals court? Could this definition of "Merger vs Acquisition" be a game changer??? Very interesting....

There won't be anything to appeal. Either they will combine the airlines and our Merger teams will broker a deal with each other or the operations will stay apart and there will never be an SLI. Won't be anything to appeal.
 
CBA will not allow seperate ops beyond 2 yrs

This was the first time the courts have given an opinion on the laws. Don't think that certain labor lawyers and groups aren't going to try and use it to support what they consider "fair and equitable". Going to be a very interesting year!


There won't be anything to appeal. Either they will combine the airlines and our Merger teams will broker a deal with each other or the operations will stay apart and there will never be an SLI. Won't be anything to appeal.
 
CBA will not allow seperate ops beyond 2 yrs
This was the first time the courts have given an opinion on the laws. Don't think that certain labor lawyers and groups aren't going to try and use it to support what they consider "fair and equitable". Going to be a very interesting year!

The 2 year provision is about 30 days at any given point from being a 30 year provision. A longer fence is a pretty easy sell if the company asks for our help in keeping separate ops. The AirTran guys will grieve their "Post announcement language" but it really will be of little consequence. What is their remedy? You can't force a company to integrate operations after an acquisition especially when the language you are trying to force them with was crafted after the acquisition announcement. I smell another supreme court victory for SWA if it is pushed.
 
Last edited:
Will this end up in the appeals court? Could this definition of "Merger vs Acquisition" be a game changer??? Very interesting....

There is a rather large labor-law firm in Atlanta that is absolutely wetting themselves over this decision. For the 20% of the attorney's employed there that have actually ever been laid, this court decision trumps that day.
 
Read the last sentence of the decision:

"McCaskill-Bond was never meant to protect the employees of an air carrier that simply goes out of business."
 
Read the last sentence of the decision:

"McCaskill-Bond was never meant to protect the employees of an air carrier that simply goes out of business."

I guess SWA could just let Airtran go out of business once they are the controlling force and owner of this airline. It has been done before.
Airlines go out of business because there is money to be made.

M
 
I guess SWA could just let Airtran go out of business once they are the controlling force and owner of this airline. It has been done before.
Airlines go out of business because there is money to be made.

M

Genius plan! Spend a billion dollars to buy an airline that makes money, control it and let it go out of business, waisting millions of dollars in the process....this is a plan worthy of Doctor Evil...."one meeellion dollars"....sorry...I digress. Wait a minute.....you should be an airline manager.

C'mon.....seriously...if Gary Kelly wanted to do that, wouldn't it be cheaper just to go head to head or wait out AAI if they thought we would go under any time soon. I'm not following your logic.
 
Last edited:
It's been done before.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom