Pinnacle, Mesaba, Colgan SLI

[Yodafly]

Ok so the contract is just about a done deal.

Largest problem at Colgan seams to be pay rates on the props vs jets. The contract will probably pass here but there will be some no votes on this issue.

Time to start talking on how we all fit together.

At Colgan its rumored to be pretty close to relative accross the board with a few points adjustment for date of hire.

What is your opinion of this?

What is the general word on the street at your company.

 

[Flyprdu]

That sounds terrible. The longevity spread per relative percentile is just too diverse. It needs to be weighted heavily towards DOH. Either that, or fence the hell out of the upgrades.

 

[RJLoser]

It's going to be done by a neutral party taking multiple factors into consideration.

 

[Yodafly]

It appears to be a topic no one wants to discuss.

Maybe something that we can't agree on.

Everone wants to be number one in any company, its kind of the goal. That is why it is becoming more the norm to be close to relative senority.

If you are Number 1 at Colgan, Pinnacle or Mesaba would it be ok to you to be less then top three in the combined company.

Is it ok to bid top 10% now then 50% in combined company.

That seams like some major life style changes from holding weekends and holidays off to working weekends and holidays.

DOH will never fly. Pinnacle and Colgan will lose too many of the highly reguarded top senority positions.

 

[Top Gum]

Really not much talk of this lately at 9e. I do know that for seniority reasons they are looking at our d.o.h. to be changed to the 1st day of class rather than the day of checkride.

 

[RJLoser]

You are right DOH is not going to happen. Neither is pure realitive seniority. A 1 yr Colgan would be in the 4-6yr 9E,XJ range.

 

[higney85]

My bet is on an arbitrator. If I show up junior to a guy with half my longevity things will get ugly.

 

[RJLoser]

My bet is on an arbitrator. If I show up junior to a guy with half my longevity things will get ugly.

Tru dat K

 

[Flyprdu]

I think it's a mistake to make broad based assumptions towards each of the pilot groups. Assuming that all Mesaba is super-senior and that Pinnacle and Colgan are junior doesn't fully take into account the dynamic nature of the hiring habits of each airline.

Yes, Mesaba has a good amount of long-term lifers (100+). But Pinnacle was hiring in large amounts during a period (2004-2007) that the other two were not. So there is a good amount of Pinnacle pilots that are stacked in the middle of the list. Relative seniority does not reflect their relative longevity. This has to be addressed, even if it comes into odds with Pinnacle's senior pilots' needs to preserve their seniority against Mesaba's super-senior group.

And Colgan guys are drooling over relative, since 2 years will buy you a captaincy anywhere in the system. Which is why the 9L rumors favor relative SLI.

 

[Yodafly]

There is no drooling at Colgan. We have been getting screwed over for so long we just want a fair integration. The problem is everyone has a different opinion of fair.

 

[Smarta$$]

I prefer DOH.

 

[Flyer1015]

Do not rule out DOH. Arbitrator Bloch will use previous historical examples, and the only regional example was American Eagle in 1997. Simmons, FlagShip, and Wings West merged and they were all DOH for their SLI. I can easily see it being DOH based, with protection for current seat/base, and all future openings whatever your seniority can DOH hold.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

Yes, Mesaba has a good amount of long-term lifers (100+). But Pinnacle was hiring in large amounts during a period (2004-2007) that the other two were not. So there is a good amount of Pinnacle pilots that are stacked in the middle of the list. Relative seniority does not reflect their relative longevity. This has to be addressed, even if it comes into odds with Pinnacle's senior pilots' needs to preserve their seniority against Mesaba's super-senior group.

The only thing I want to say is that there are about 400 pilots at 2003 and before. Granted you said 100+, I just wanted to help with a more accurate number.

SLI could get ugly. I'd rather it not go to arbitration but this issue is going to be so much harder than the contract that I just have no idea how it will go.

 

[Flyprdu]

The only thing I want to say is that there are about 400 pilots at 2003 and before. Granted you said 100+, I just wanted to help with a more accurate number.

I wouldn't count 2003 as a "long-term" lifer. We have lots of 7 year guys at Pinnacle. The big difference is the amount of 15+ year guys. That's where the big differences are. XJ has hundreds. 9E maybe has 50.*

Now, don't hold me to this. This is all from memory looking at the master lists 6 months ago.

 

[flyboyike]

My bet is on an arbitrator. If I show up junior to a guy with half my longevity things will get ugly.

Did wonders at USAir, didn't it?

 

[BoilerUP]

Do not rule out DOH. Arbitrator Bloch will use previous historical examples, and the only regional example was American Eagle in 1997. Simmons, FlagShip, and Wings West merged and they were all DOH for their SLI. I can easily see it being DOH based, with protection for current seat/base, and all future openings whatever your seniority can DOH hold.

You forget PDT/ALG a few years ago, and I think more recently, CHQ & Shuttle America.

 

[Yodafly]

DOH will not be accepted at Colgan or Pinnacle. Mesaba won't like straight relative. Its going to have to be some sort of combo. How DOH is weighted toward Relative is the big question.

 

[Smarta$$]

I wouldn't count 2003 as a "long-term" lifer. We have lots of 7 year guys at Pinnacle. The big difference is the amount of 15+ year guys. That's where the big differences are. XJ has hundreds. 9E maybe has 50.*

Now, don't hold me to this. This is all from memory looking at the master lists 6 months ago.

For us 4-6 year guys at pinnacle, there will be 400 Mesaba guys above us. Doesn't matter if they are 10 numbers above or 500. They are above. Might as well just be DOH. Now, it will be harmful to our senior guys at pinnacle, but they could care less about us anyway. What comes around goes around.

 

[Smarta$$]

DOH will not be accepted at Colgan or Pinnacle. Mesaba won't like straight relative. Its going to have to be some sort of combo. How DOH is weighted toward Relative is the big question.

Colgan sure expects a lot out of this deal. We all had "expectations".

 

[Yodafly]

I say again, we expect to be fairly integrated. I dont think that is unreasonable.

Don't worry, our group is small and won't change your number or % very much one way or the other.