Southwest to Newark!

[NEDude]

Well, if you think LGA is bad you're gonna have lots of fun in the red-haired stepchild airport of New York.

Just wait for the position and hold, delay for arriving ifr aircraft into linden, a C-172.

10 minutes later......

According to the folks at AOPA that never happens - GA never causes delays for airlines.

Seen it myself, five minute delay for an IFR King Air off of Linden.

 

[PSL]

Actually, the statements by AOPA are true. Just for the record, the drumbeating for equal access of corporate airplanes is not done by AOPA, it is the NBAA.

If you count the total number of T/Ls by FAR 121 Air Carriers at the major airports and note the ones that were 'delayed' by a Cessna 172 or Beech King Air, I believe you will find that number in the .001 range.

Most large airports deal with this issue by charging ramp and service fees that make the airport so painful to use by the average GA Pilot that they will seek reliever airports. BOS and MASSPORT were poster children of this policy as far back as 1985.

BWI is another classic example.

There is one FBO (Signature) which charges ramp fees and fuel prices that would cause heat attacks in healthy people.

They have, and have had for many years, a monopoly.

As a result, many GA airplane will seek out DMW, MTN, GAI or FDK. The drive to the city from MTN and FDK is slightly longer and if you are going to points west or northeast of BWI, the drive time is shorter.

The problem at EWR is the proximity of the reliever airports and their associated IFR approaches. There are times where EWR traffic gets affected by the mandatory protected areas and NORDO procedures of the very airports that should provide relief.

The FAA - ATC edict has always been, first come ... first serve. There are merits and costs (both financial and efficiency) to this modus operandi.

 

[Flopgut]

LOL!

It has not been announced yet but I'd bet money on Chicago, Denver and Baltimore.

Gup

You might consider not going where CAL/UAL currently goes. That way when/if we strike you can avoid flying struck work. That's probably one of the major reasons you all got this. That's the feeling I'm getting in my enormous gut....

Not that I think for even a nano second you guys would do that to us. Fact I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see some SWA guys walking our line with us.

 

[GuppyWN]

You might consider not going where CAL/UAL currently goes. That way when/if we strike you can avoid flying struck work. That's probably one of the major reasons you all got this. That's the feeling I'm getting in my enormous gut....

Not that I think for even a nano second you guys would do that to us. Fact I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see some SWA guys walking our line with us.

You'd better double check your ALPA definition of struck work. If WN flies from EWR to XYZ and so does CAL, it isn't stuck work. Struck work is flying CAL passengers on CAL tickets on SWA jets.

I can PROMISE you that I would never do that. Matter of fact you let me know when and where you boys are picketing and I'll bring my enormous gut over and walk with you.

I had no idea you guys were even pissed off. What gives?

Gup

 

[scoreboardII]

yeah,I heard the UAL/CAL deal was all love fest? This from a UAL jumpseater and a CAL guy.

 

[johnsonrod]

Why wasn't there an auction for these EWR slots? Why wasn't Virgin America allowed to bid on anything? This just smells bad, a lot like EWR.

 

[Flopgut]

You'd better double check your ALPA definition of struck work. If WN flies from EWR to XYZ and so does CAL, it isn't stuck work. Struck work is flying CAL passengers on CAL tickets on SWA jets.

I can PROMISE you that I would never do that. Matter of fact you let me know when and where you boys are picketing and I'll bring my enormous gut over and walk with you.

I had no idea you guys were even pissed off. What gives?

Gup

No, I know that's wrong on my part as stated. And I wouldn't expect you guys to do anything that wasn't contractural as for as honoring our possible strike. NJ is a much different place than Texas. You don't fuel your own car in NJ, much less your jet. Be ready to explain that you aren't flying struck work to a lot of folks if it comes down to that.

If we are allowed to strike I could see a scenario where we get kicked out of Terminal C and SWA is offered the space and asked to fly to 50+ new places. And that would get messy. I'm sure SWAPA will get briefed up by ALPA.

CAL/UAL is going fine.... The problem is with management and our contract. It's heating up. Hard to look at this EWR/SWA thing and not wonder what's going on in mgts head's

 

[Furloughed80]

Hard to look at this EWR/SWA thing and not wonder what's going on in mgts head's

I think you guys a reading way too much into this. The fact that all the combined CAL/UAL had to give up was 18 slots into EWR is an amazing deal. The majority of these slots were UAL's. The combined airline still retains ownership of the slots, they are just leasing them to SWA. SWA can fly anywhere they want to. When you look at what the CAL/UAL operation at EWR is about to become, with wide-bodies flying to every corner of the world, how much of an effect do you think 18 domestic flights on SWA is going to have? Do you really think that CAL/UAL will be making its money on EWR-ORD, EWR-BWI, EWR-MCO, EWR-IAH???

 

[mt2]

My guess is UA/CAL had to come up with a deal that provided competition in the EWR-Chicago, EWR-DEN, and EWR-SFO markets. This way the newly combined carrier doesn't have a monopoly on those routes. SWA was a logical pick as they'll surely have EWR-MDW and EWR-DEN -- and possibly EWR-OAK or EWR-SFO -- flights as part of their Newark schedule.

It's a good deal for SWA and a real win for UA/CAL. Everyone else, well...

I don't recall what the FEDS made DAL/NWA give up. Anyone ??

 

[IAHERJ]

I think you guys a reading way too much into this. The fact that all the combined CAL/UAL had to give up was 18 slots into EWR is an amazing deal. The majority of these slots were UAL's. The combined airline still retains ownership of the slots, they are just leasing them to SWA. SWA can fly anywhere they want to. When you look at what the CAL/UAL operation at EWR is about to become, with wide-bodies flying to every corner of the world, how much of an effect do you think 18 domestic flights on SWA is going to have? Do you really think that CAL/UAL will be making its money on EWR-ORD, EWR-BWI, EWR-MCO, EWR-IAH???

Take a look a a typical EWR-IAH CAL weekday schedule. At least 4 widebody aircraft and the rest 757 with a couple 737's a day. There is a lot of traffic for CAL to allocate those aircraft on that segment(I know some of the widebodies are hub swaps for South America and Europe) given our lack of widebodies(aircraft, that is).

 

[The Prussian]

You're right.

Southwest has never paid its fair share of airport fees.

Everywhere we go hot babes bend over and airport authorities buckle.

It's good to be us. imp:

Gup

Now...I don't remember exactly, but somehow, I remember that SWA came up with something in the neighborhood of 450 million dollars bond money backing to finance the modernization of MDW airport, and I don't recall anyone else coming up with anywhere near that kind of cash (let alone any) to help...anyone care to jump in here???


Just sayin!...

 

[GuppyWN]

I was being sarcastic - and NO, nobody will jump in because they are whining to make noise. They hate us because we are pretty.

Pick a city..... ISP, FLL, HOU, OAK, LAS. I could go on and on. Where we go new terminals and parking garages follow. But I'm sure they are just gifts.

Gup

 

[Tejas-Jet]

...Bump...

 

[satpak77]

Good job to SWA. Positive news, expansion, new cities is a welcome relief in light of the seemingly-always-negative airline news we have had lately.

My vote is Florida, West Coast (Calif) , and/or Vegas.

I just don't see Chicago, Albuquerque, or Denver from Newark in the works.

 

[Jetjockey]

Now...I don't remember exactly, but somehow, I remember that SWA came up with something in the neighborhood of 450 million dollars bond money backing to finance the modernization of MDW airport, and I don't recall anyone else coming up with anywhere near that kind of cash (let alone any) to help...anyone care to jump in here???


Just sayin!...

I remember ATA putting up some cash for the MDW modernization.