ASA & Expressjet Newest

[rumorhasit]

My question is if XJT is such a sh!TTY company why is skywest buying them? What are the plans for Express?

 

[rumorhasit]

I believe there is more to this story than just some regionals merging. This is about CALs scope of a/c smaller than 50seats and I'm sure United values the merger with CAL more than loyalty to skywest. Xjt has operated under CAL scope and have a very good position to continue with the new bigger united.

 

[amcnd]

BINGO. Furthermore, all this agreement will probably say is "no transfer of aircraft between carriers." However, there won't be anything preventing stagnation on one side (ASA) and growth on the other side (SKW). There are more ways to whipsaw besides threat of moving around aircraft between carriers. Since the ASA side will now be bigger, how about agreeing to ASA getting 3 planes for every 2 planes SKW is awarded through acquisition or purchase from now on? We are soon to be the bigger airline, after all. That ratio should work fine. INC (skw in disguise) will grow the SkyWest fleet very soon. There will also be upgrades. There will be more larger planes. Just watch.

If this whole thing isn't about an attempt to whipsaw (according to management), then why not streamline and make 3 = 1? Curious.

Dude... I don't think its far to restrict SkyWest pilots... They have been the back bone of the company for 35+ years.. If anything they should be saying you can have a few airplanes when they fell like it... Whos buying who again.... Sorry, im tired of XJT thinking they run SkyWest/ASA... At this point i hope they kill the deal...

 

[79%N1]

My question is if XJT is such a sh!TTY company why is skywest buying them? What are the plans for Express?

Run it better, secure contracts, make money......

That was easy.

 

[cybourg10]

You guys can stop worrying about XJT walking away from the deal. It seems our union is willing to go forward with the transaction and will begin to work on a transition agreement with whipsaw protection similar to what ASA has now. Nothing is official yet of course.

 

[buscap]

You guys can stop worrying about XJT walking away from the deal. It seems our union is willing to go forward with the transaction and will begin to work on a transition agreement with whipsaw protection similar to what ASA has now. Nothing is official yet of course.

Whichever way it goes I am looking forward to working with the Express guys; whether it would be helping with the merger by being a sack-of-crap, nonparticipating, FI posting, dues paying whiner or helping you guys fight the merger by being a sack-of-crap, nonparticipating, FI posting, dues paying whiner.

Either way-I'm here for you man!!!:beer:

 

[damnflyboy]

Dude... I don't think its far to restrict SkyWest pilots... They have been the back bone of the company for 35+ years.. If anything they should be saying you can have a few airplanes when they fell like it... Whos buying who again.... Sorry, im tired of XJT thinking they run SkyWest/ASA... At this point i hope they kill the deal...

ASA pilots work hard too, you know. Furthermore, we're part of Inc's equation. It's convenient to forget that ASA makes money for Inc. 60% of the backbone if this aquisition goes through. I'm sure you work hard. But SkyWest pilots don't own ASA. INC owns us. And, yes...we're lucky for it. But let's be honest about something. Inc wasn't created to be nice or save our company. It was to keep both sides split and to make money, most importantly. You can not take the credit for that. You were a working tool in management's game. Good for you. If SkyWest Airlines IS SkyWest, INC...then I'm afraid XJT has a valid base to their argument.

I can't stand this arrogance or ignorance...take your pick.

 

[LazyLightnin']

To be honest, I don't care either way. ASA was fine without XJ a few weeks ago, and they will be fine some more in the future.

Does anyone expect the XJ MEC to hold a membership vote on the subject, or will it be left up to the MEC? What's the next move? Rumor has it JA gave the JX MEC a week to arrive at a decision, otherwise he was going to abandon the deal.

Sure you do. You hope it's gets pushed deader than hell. So do I. So does everyone.

Keep pushing it XJT, guys. Do the hard work for us so the thing falls through and we can all keep the status quo. But don't be giant doosh wagons if you see an ASA guy in uniform. Actually, just try to never be giant dooshers... It's worth a shot.

 

[JumpersAway]

Sure you do. You hope it's gets pushed deader than hell. So do I. So does everyone.

Keep pushing it XJT, guys. Do the hard work for us so the thing falls through and we can all keep the status quo. But don't be giant doosh wagons if you see an ASA guy in uniform. Actually, just try to never be giant dooshers... It's worth a shot.

You caught me..............

 

[Baronman]

Dude... I don't think its far to restrict SkyWest pilots... They have been the back bone of the company for 35+ years.. If anything they should be saying you can have a few airplanes when they fell like it... Whos buying who again.... Sorry, im tired of XJT thinking they run SkyWest/ASA... At this point i hope they kill the deal...

Funny thing is, who cares what SKWY pilots think! You're a voiceless bunch. You get what is given to you...as in NO self determination. Just sit on the sidelines please and do what you do best. Nothing.

 

[Jetjockey]

Too bad the Skywest have NO CONTRACT to fall back on. Oh yeah, they have the student council policy manual, which I'm sure management can change unilaterally on Jerry's whim.

Baron is right, you have no collective voice. Just sit in the stands and cheer for Jerry.

 

[wms]

Word on the street is that JA told the XJT MEC that if they insist on the 3-way integration that he will drop the deal. I also heard that after a few beers in Vegas the XJT guys true colors came out and that they think they're gonna come in and take over. If that's the case then I hope the deal falls through and those guys can fend for themselves. (Obviously this is all hearsay.)

It'll be nice to have a fresh perspective on the ASA MEC, but as far as taking over goes, the merger only pertains to ALPA seniority.

The fact is, EV is buying XE and has the right to exercise its authority in how the business is run.

 

[LazyLightnin']

Skywest Inc. is doing the buying... And the merging. ASA ain't bought ********************

 

[mightyM]

Skywest Inc. is doing the buying... And the merging. ASA ain't bought ********************

Oh yeah and who does skywest inc. Own?

Decision upheld. 3 way orgy it is.

 

[IBNAV8R]

Here's the thing:

JERRY DON'T BLUFF!!

Someone alluded to the situation as like Jerry being in a car dealership. Thing is, Jerry and board WANT the deal but, trust me, they decided before even making the offer that they don't NEED the deal.

I can see it now, "Ok, that didn't happen - bunch of idiots. Who wants Thai for lunch?"

 

[Whydoitry]

Here's the thing:

JERRY DON'T BLUFF!!

Someone alluded to the situation as like Jerry being in a car dealership. Thing is, Jerry and board WANT the deal but, trust me, they decided before even making the offer that they don't NEED the deal.

I can see it now, "Ok, that didn't happen - bunch of idiots. Who wants Thai for lunch?"

Then why did he come back 2 years later to try and redo the deal?

 

[Beergut]

Then why did he come back 2 years later to try and redo the deal?

Because he can get XJT for a firesale. XJT is bleeding cash and may last another 18 months at this rate. He's doing them a favor but all of these chest thumping XJT guys are to stupid to realize it. Blow the deal now and he'll just buy you in bankruptcy down the road. (Personally I hope he does drop the deal.)

 

[LazyLightnin']

Oh yeah and who does skywest inc. Own?

Decision upheld. 3 way orgy it is.

Absolutely none of your post made sense... Thanks for the contribution.

 

[Whydoitry]

Because he can get XJT for a firesale. XJT is bleeding cash and may last another 18 months at this rate. He's doing them a favor but all of these chest thumping XJT guys are to stupid to realize it. Blow the deal now and he'll just buy you in bankruptcy down the road. (Personally I hope he does drop the deal.)

The price is almost the same as last time, and last time there was more cash in the XJT bank account. XJT isn't bleeding cash, the quarterly losses are less and less. At the very least XJT has 5 more years on a contract with CAL and 3 more with UAL. Bankruptcy is not the end of the world, ask Mesaba, UAL, CAL, USAir, DAL, or inevitable for XJT. Here's the thing, no one ever knows how things are going to turn out in this industry. All XJT pilots are asking for is that the contract is followed. That means a single list with all pilots that belong to whatever holding company ultimately owns or buys XJT. It is clear that the holding company that ultimately wants to buy XJT is SKY Inc. They can leave Skywest Airlines non union, but the XJT contract requires that all the pilots be put on one list period.

 

[Speedtape]

The price is almost the same as last time, and last time there was more cash in the XJT bank account. XJT isn't bleeding cash, the quarterly losses are less and less. At the very least XJT has 5 more years on a contract with CAL and 3 more with UAL. Bankruptcy is not the end of the world, ask Mesaba, UAL, CAL, USAir, DAL, or inevitable for XJT. Here's the thing, no one ever knows how things are going to turn out in this industry. All XJT pilots are asking for is that the contract is followed. That means a single list with all pilots that belong to whatever holding company ultimately owns or buys XJT. It is clear that the holding company that ultimately wants to buy XJT is SKY Inc. They can leave Skywest Airlines non union, but the XJT contract requires that all the pilots be put on one list period.

Not according to the legal experts. Unfortunately, your scope is vague and indefinite on being acquired. So much so, that it would not hold up in court. However, you want have to fight INC., on the issue. They have a plan B if you pursue a lawsuit. You'll just get to watch Express become the "Incredible Shrinking Airline."

In other words, you have no leverage and if you want a future, you will have to join the ASA pilots and sing Cumbaya!

 

[79%N1]

And how much of your contract will you lose in bankrupcy, and please don't say none!
Maybe a combined company with ASA is your better option. I bet a nice PWA would be worked out that would be much better than a post-bankrupcy one!

 

[Baronman]

Not according to the legal experts. Unfortunately, your scope is vague and indefinite on being acquired. So much so, that it would not hold up in court. However, you want have to fight INC., on the issue. They have a plan B if you pursue a lawsuit. You'll just get to watch Express become the "Incredible Shrinking Airline."

In other words, you have no leverage and if you want a future, you will have to join the ASA pilots and sing Cumbaya!

WTF? Not according to the legal experts? If the scope was vague, then we'd have no issue here. The companies would be merged because the scope on being acquired would not protect XJT pilots.

Instead Uncle Jerry is in meetings with XJT ALPA saying unless XJT Pilots agree to the conditions, one of which is dropping this clause, then he'll probably walk away from the deal. THERE IS AN ISSUE, so rethink your opening sentence.

Let me ask you, why do you believe XJT negotiated this into the contract of '04? TO PROTECT ITS PILOTS AGAINST SITUATIONS LIKE THIS!

FYI I'm not even yet where I stand, how the integration could be done, with protections etc. I do know this, the non - union SKWY will always be a thorn in the regional pilots side, especially a pilot under the SKWY umbrella.

 

[Tarzan]

WTF? Not according to the legal experts? If the scope was vague, then we'd have no issue here. The companies would be merged because the scope on being acquired would not protect XJT pilots.

Doesn't matter in this case. You guys could have bullet proof language and Jerry would still hold the cards. You guys make your own decisions. Call your reps and tell them what you believe. We will support you guys which ever way you choose.

 

[Baronman]

Doesn't matter in this case. You guys could have bullet proof language and Jerry would still hold the cards. You guys make your own decisions. Call your reps and tell them what you believe. We will support you guys which ever way you choose.

If Jerry holds all the cards, then he'll push the deal and wouldn't have suggested walking away from it without the changes. He doesn't hold all the cards apparently. If it means enough to him, he'll have to offer us something in exchange. I suggest it does mean enough, otherwise he wouldn't be at the negotiating table with us.

Again, for you Skywest pilots.
Negotiation is a dialogue intended to resolve disputes, to produce an agreement upon courses of action, to bargain for individual or collective advantage, or to craft outcomes to satisfy various interests. It is the primary method of alternative dispute resolution.

 

[johnpeace]

If Jerry holds all the cards, then he'll push the deal and wouldn't have suggested walking away from it without the changes.

I don't think a merger with one severely pissed off pilot group who can't play nice with the company and the pilots they merged with is what he has in mind.

He's trying to build a big happy airline that will realize operating efficiency gains.

I'm guessing those are the terms he wants XJET on and if he can't get it that way, he'll walk.

 

[ExHeloGuy]

SKWY wants this merger. It's like a guy at a car dealer. He says if he doesn't get the deal he wants,he's walking away. the bottom line is he wants the car, he needs the car. I think that is purely management posturing. They want it their way. They have been used to getting their way. The pendulum is swinging towards labor now. I'd say with that letter, you can get what you want. It's the fly in Jerry's ointment.

If the merger falls through, Expressjet will be just fine. The way I see it is, Skywest NEEDS this merger. XJT is positioned very well with a solid operation and jets that conform to the scope clause. Either way, XJT comes out a winner.

Use that leverage to your advantage.



You obviously have no idea of the situation at XJT.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Kill it then. Please!!

 

[SSDD]

I know I'm going to catch crap for this...but here it goes. Some of you guys are at the same spot the ASA guys a few years ago. Jerry Atkin is a different type of owner. He is not a for hire CEO. If a deal makes sense he'll do it, not he'll walk away. I remember ASA guys talking about how he had to negotiate, how he would have to back off of his original position, and some of us tried to tell them, that's not how he works. Well, a year or two later they settled pretty much at the starting offer, plus or minus some minor concessions from the company.

I'm not saying you have to take what is he offering. Some small stuff he'll be flexible on, but the major stuff he will not.

Basically what I'm saying is, take the time to know who you're negotiating with.

 

[IBNAV8R]

If Jerry holds all the cards, then he'll push the deal and wouldn't have suggested walking away from it without the changes. He doesn't hold all the cards apparently. If it means enough to him, he'll have to offer us something in exchange. I suggest it does mean enough, otherwise he wouldn't be at the negotiating table with us.

Again, for you Skywest pilots.
Negotiation is a dialogue intended to resolve disputes, to produce an agreement upon courses of action, to bargain for individual or collective advantage, or to craft outcomes to satisfy various interests. It is the primary method of alternative dispute resolution.

Jerry may not hold all the cards but they are heavily stacked in his favor. He DOES have all the chips and won't hesitate to take them home to play another game or another time.

This is NOT a negotiation. The only dialogue or dispute resolution will take place AFTER the deal is done. Jerry is not XJT management (yet) and thus has zero obligation to bargain or even communicate with XJT pilots.

 

[777forever]

The price is almost the same as last time, and last time there was more cash in the XJT bank account. XJT isn't bleeding cash, the quarterly losses are less and less. At the very least XJT has 5 more years on a contract with CAL and 3 more with UAL. Bankruptcy is not the end of the world, ask Mesaba, UAL, CAL, USAir, DAL, or inevitable for XJT. Here's the thing, no one ever knows how things are going to turn out in this industry. All XJT pilots are asking for is that the contract is followed. That means a single list with all pilots that belong to whatever holding company ultimately owns or buys XJT. It is clear that the holding company that ultimately wants to buy XJT is SKY Inc. They can leave Skywest Airlines non union, but the XJT contract requires that all the pilots be put on one list period.

Quarterly losses getting smaller and smaller?! 2nd Quarter 2010 XJT posts 18.6 million loss (compared to 13.1 2nd Quarter 2009) on higher than expected revenue. Keep that up and 100 mil cash will be gone real soon.

All you guys are asking is to honor your contract. All SKW is asking is drop the one list push, and the INTENT of your contract will be honored thru whipsaw and aircraft transfer protections. Saving your company from certain death doesnt hurt either.