"Line Up and Wait" - Let's Hear it for Globalization

[LegacyDriver]

I have never liked having to say that. It sounds ridiculous. Maybe it is just me but our capitulation on this just smacks as another sign that the USA is fading...Why don't we tell ICAO and the JAA to stuff it in their ears?We convert licenses here fairly easily for them but they won't do it for us. Airbus' subsidies took down McDD and almost whacked Boeing. The list is long,Supposedly they are pushing us to abandon TERPS and "go Euro" on everything. Any way... Not sure why I even mention it...just seems "par for the course" in the USA these days...

 

[FoxHunter]

I have never liked having to say that. It sounds ridiculous. Maybe it is just me but our capitulation on this just smacks as another sign that the USA is fading...Why don't we tell ICAO and the JAA to stuff it in their ears?We convert licenses here fairly easily for them but they won't do it for us. Airbus' subsidies took down McDD and almost whacked Boeing. The list is long,Supposedly they are pushing us to abandon TERPS and "go Euro" on everything. Any way... Not sure why I even mention it...just seems "par for the course" in the USA these days...

You've got to be kidding. Let's adopt a number of things from Europe. How about their flight and duty time rules? How about the ground lighting systems found in the UK?

 

[NCherches]

...ill still never own a 'SmartCar'

 

[ksu_aviator]

You've got to be kidding. Let's adopt a number of things from Europe. How about their flight and duty time rules? How about the ground lighting systems found in the UK?

While we are at it, we can adopt their user fees and taxes too

 

[BoilerUP]

"Line up and wait" is pretty damn low on the list of stuff to get one's knickers in a twist about...

 

[con-pilot]

"Line up and wait" is pretty damn low on the list of stuff to get one's knickers in a twist about...

With everything going on in the Aviation Industry right now, I have to agree with Boiler.

As far as I'm concerned, when in Rome, do as the Romans while flying internationally. After all, once you leave North America* ICAO rules the rest of the world.


* Including much of the Caribbean and Mexico.

 

[Hamburger]

Do you bitch about globalization and the death of American manufacturing while driving around in your Embraer that 'rules!'?

 

[say again]

Do you bitch about globalization and the death of American manufacturing while driving around in your Embraer that 'rules!'?

hahaha

 

[LegacyDriver]

Do you bitch about globalization and the death of American manufacturing while driving around in your Embraer that 'rules!'?

Actually, yes, I do.

I have a lot of guilt over it at times. The Phenom is going to bury the Mustang and that means more Americans lose their jobs.

Cessna and Boeing and all the rest missed the boat. Now we have Canadians and Brazilians ruling the world instead of the good old USA.

A sign of the times. America is no longer #1 in everything...or perhaps ANYTHING. Sad.

 

[LegacyDriver]

"Line up and wait" is pretty damn low on the list of stuff to get one's knickers in a twist about...

Yes, but it is like the straw and the camel....

America acquiesces to EVERYONE these days.

As crappy as this industry has been the last two years.....now we can't even keep our own phraseology. Pretty soon we'll be speaking French on the radio.

 

[Pickle]

You're just grumpy because you won't get to say "take it out and hold it" anymore when given position and hold.

 

[LegacyDriver]

you're just grumpy because you won't get to say "take it out and hold it" anymore when given position and hold.

Ha ha ha!

 

[BoilerUP]

The Phenom is going to bury the Mustang and that means more Americans lose their jobs.

No, the P100 will not "bury" the Mustang.

Embraer is smart because both Phenom airframes split Cessna's offerings; the P100 falls between the Mustang & CJ1+ and the P300 between the CJ3 and CJ4. They come at a lower price point, but there's a lot of operators that are going to balk at a new Embraer product in bizav (look no further than the crappy cabin seats the P100/P300 rolled out with), especially when it comes to the question of supporting those planes.

The Legacy 450 & 500, however...those will come after the P100/300 have had a little time to mature in the market and very well could shake up the midsize market to the point they're another nail in Hawker's coffin.

 

[LegacyDriver]

No, the P100 will not "bury" the Mustang.

Embraer is smart because both Phenom airframes split Cessna's offerings; the P100 falls between the Mustang & CJ1+ and the P300 between the CJ3 and CJ4. They come at a lower price point, but there's a lot of operators that are going to balk at a new Embraer product in bizav (look no further than the crappy cabin seats the P100/P300 rolled out with), especially when it comes to the question of supporting those planes.

The Legacy 450 & 500, however...those will come after the P100/300 have had a little time to mature in the market and very well could shake up the midsize market to the point they're another nail in Hawker's coffin.

I'll tell you what brother... I agree with you on the 450 and 500.... But I also know EMB. I helped deliver the first 30 Legacys (Legacies?) that came out. EMB is good at continuous improvement.

So....

My money in on the EMB. Put yours on the Mustang. Let's revisit this in five years. Whoever loses has an open bar tab for whoever shows up to collect.

Fair?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

While it would be nice if you are both right....I dont see any of these junks moving at all..

The midsize market has tanked, the small jet market has fallen off a cliff, and VLJ's - well, lets just say they didn't take over the skies like everyone thought.....shop around lately? the only thing moving at all is newer, long range aircraft. Want to buy a used cessna or a beechjet etc? offer them half what they wanted 1-2 years ago - you might get it.

IMO - The corporate aircraft market is going to remain in the toilet for many years, and these planes will be the first down the drain.

How about that optimism!?!?

 

[satpak77]

Actually, yes, I do.

I have a lot of guilt over it at times. The Phenom is going to bury the Mustang and that means more Americans lose their jobs.

Cessna and Boeing and all the rest missed the boat. Now we have Canadians and Brazilians ruling the world instead of the good old USA.

A sign of the times. America is no longer #1 in everything...or perhaps ANYTHING. Sad.

would you buy Toyota or would you buy Ford

 

[skypine69]

would you buy Toyota or would you buy Ford

Neither.....subaru.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I buy Buick. Always.

My 1992 has 434,000 miles on the original parts.

 

[satpak77]

sounds good. Because if you bought Toyota Camry you are buying a car built in USA. If you bought a Ford Crown Vic the entire vehicle or large portions of the vehicle were built in Mexico or Ontario, Canada, work done by foreigners and not Americans.

Long live USA

 

[NCherches]

...The fact that you have a buick expains the rest of your posts.

 

[G4G5]

sounds good. Because if you bought Toyota Camry you are buying a car built in USA. If you bought a Ford Crown Vic the entire vehicle or large portions of the vehicle were built in Mexico or Ontario, Canada, work done by foreigners and not Americans.

Long live USA

Not valid argument.

I can find Ford on the NYSE and the money stays and is controlled in the USA. With a Toyota all the $$$ winds up in Japan.

All you are do is sending your $$$ to a holding company then onto Japan.

 

[satpak77]

Not valid argument.

I can find Ford on the NYSE and the money stays and is controlled in the USA. With a Toyota all the $$$ winds up in Japan.

All you are do is sending your $$$ to a holding company then onto Japan.

maybe so but Joe Smith works on the assembly line for Toyota and has money to pay his kids college.

the other guy doesn't

I guess my point was "jobs" not corporate profits (your points are 100% correct). Similar to Virgin Airlines America (or whatever it is called) employing gringos to fly Airbus'es around USA, it beats the unemployment line.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Im still just simply impressed that LD's Buick has 434,000 miles on it.

 

[LegacyDriver]

...The fact that you have a buick expains the rest of your posts.

Actually I have five Buicks and a 1969 Mopar...but it isn't very practical.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Im still just simply impressed that LD's Buick has 434,000 miles on it.

And 30 MPG on the highway. That 3.8L V-6 is a tough motor. Runs forever. I think a lot of them were built in Canada though. Ooops.

The lowest mileage one I have is over 115K, the others are all over 200K.

 

[rice]

Im still just simply impressed that LD's Buick has 434,000 miles on it.

That explains how he got back down to Brazil so he could deliver those first 30 Legacy's. :laugh:

 

[LegacyDriver]

That explains how he got back down to Brazil so he could deliver those first 30 Legacy's. :laugh:

Knob.


When are you coming to Texas, beeyatch?

 

[rumrnr78]

In Hong Kong yesterday, I was given, "Line up RWY 7R". Are they shortening the verbage? This is not the first time I have heard this in Asia.

Glad to hear all is well with ya LD!

 

[LaTechPilot2003]

In Hong Kong yesterday, I was given, "Line up RWY 7R". Are they shortening the verbage? This is not the first time I have heard this in Asia.

Glad to hear all is well with ya LD!

I was in Calgary a couple of weeks ago, and the tower was using "Line up at the threshold RWY 34" instead of "Line up and wait RWY 34." I had been up the way in Edmonton a little earlier in the day, and they were using the correct phraseology. I know it's Canada and not a place that people necessarily have trouble understanding the controllers, but I seem to remember them making a big push for the standardization of the "line up and wait" phraseology up there a few years ago. So much for that it seems!

Also, has anyone besides me ever heard a controller to clear you to "line up and take off RWY XX?" I've gotten that one from SBEG several times passing through there. Seems like the rest of the controllers I talk to at other airports in Brazil use "clear take off RWY XX," but "Clear line up and take off RWY XX" seems to be the norm in Manaus. It confuses the hell out of the crew for a split second because you can't tell whether it was a "line up and wait" or a "line up and take off" clearance! Anyone who has been to Brazil can attest that those controllers are pretty hard to decipher at best!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

or better yet.."line up and takeoff after departing Airbus (etc)"

Just verify things if there is any confusion - which there often is in some places.

Line up and wait, position and hold...whatever. Not a big deal.