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"Line Up and Wait" - Let's Hear it for Globalization

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rumrnr78 said:
In Hong Kong yesterday, I was given, "Line up RWY 7R". Are they shortening the verbage? This is not the first time I have heard this in Asia.

Glad to hear all is well with ya LD!
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Not just in Asia, some places in Europe as well. Now if I could only remember where....;)
 
It has been my experience when flying in non-English speaking countries, which is considerable, that you have to keep in mind that many of the controllers only speak very limited English, just enough in many cases to pass the English section of their training.

Demanding American style radio phraseology only contributes to more anti-American feelings around the world. So be part of the cure, not the problem.

Besides that, the more one responses in proper ICAO ATC language, the more professional the controller will believe you are, even for a Yank.

Hell, I've been fooling Air Traffic Controllers all over the world for years making them think I was a real professional. :p
 
con-pilot said:
It has been my experience when flying in non-English speaking countries, which is considerable, that you have to keep in mind that many of the controllers only speak very limited English, just enough in many cases to pass the English section of their training.
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I've found this to DEFINITELY be the case when flying in Brazil. The Brazilian controllers know just enough English to issue "normal" clearances/instructions, but they don't have the slightest clue as to what you're requesting as soon as you deviate from standard phraseology (especially in remote, off the beaten path destinations; Rio and Sao Paulo aren't too bad if I remember correctly). Trying to get a clarification on a clearance limit issued by a previous controller gets dead silence on the frequency for a few moments, for example. It has been over a year and a half since I was last in Brazil, so it may have gotten better since then!
 
Demanding American style radio phraseology only contributes to more anti-American feelings around the world. So be part of the cure, not the problem.

Besides that, the more one responses in proper ICAO ATC language, the more professional the controller will believe you are
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One of the things that I find the funniest is when people start this conversations with the controller on completely nonstandard phraseology "Hey we were wondering because we are running a bit late here and we would like to make up some time if it is possible to go direct to XXX and see if we can make up some of the lost time here, if not we would take direct to XXX instead to see if you could help us out" all of this in Taipei's airspace and they don't realize that they lost the controller right after "Hey" so the controller reverts to the most safe answer for him "Flight plan route" not because they couldn't give you a short cut but only because they didn't get a word you said. If you keep your requests simple "Request direct to XXX" you will have a lot better chance to get what you want
 
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Dumb Pilot said:
One of the things that I find the funniest is when people start this conversations with the controller on completely nonstandard phraseology "Hey we were wondering because we are running a bit late here and we would like to make up some time if it is possible to go direct to XXX and see if we can make up some of the lost time here, if not we would take direct to XXX instead to see if you could help us out" all of this in Taipei's airspace and they don't realize that they lost the controller right after "Hey" so the controller reverts to the most safe answer for him "Flight plan route" not because they couldn't give you a short cut but only because they didn't get a word you said. If you keep your requests simple "Request direct to XXX" you will have a lot better chance to get what you want
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"Hey there Shannon its Deltaz 3421 how y'all doing witcha at 35 this mornin' runnin a bit late any chance dy-rect Dolip"
 
As crappy as this industry has been the last two years.....now we can't even keep our own phraseology. Pretty soon we'll be speaking French on the radio.
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Perhaps you haven't flown in France lately (or ever), but the French speak English on the radio, per ICAO convention.

The United States is not the only country in the world, you know.
 
avbug said:
Perhaps you haven't flown in France lately (or ever), but the French speak English on the radio, per ICAO convention.

The United States is not the only country in the world, you know.
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Right.:erm: Hmm, actually they do speak English and French.
 
Dumb Pilot said:
One of the things that I find the funniest is when people start this conversations with the controller on completely nonstandard phraseology "Hey we were wondering because we are running a bit late here and we would like to make up some time if it is possible to go direct to XXX and see if we can make up some of the lost time here, if not we would take direct to XXX instead to see if you could help us out" all of this in Taipei's airspace and they don't realize that they lost the controller right after "Hey" so the controller reverts to the most safe answer for him "Flight plan route" not because they couldn't give you a short cut but only because they didn't get a word you said. If you keep your requests simple "Request direct to XXX" you will have a lot better chance to get what you want
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Right. As soon as you deviate from strict standard phraseology you can count on getting silence or having the request denied. While I was flying in Russia I used to occasionally hear the Delta Mumbai flight requesting direct to some fix 600 miles away in Finland. Silence. Request (complete with American slang and Peachtree City accent) made again. "Cleared flight plan route". In that part of the world you could usually get direct to the FIR exit point, but rarely farther until you got closer to Earth where they had radar.
 
75 Driver said:
Having to listen to Delta on the NAT tracks is pain at the best and downright unsafe when they have another gross nav error like last night.
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How gross?
 
Right.:erm: Hmm, actually they do speak English and French.
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Actually, they speak English. That French is spoken to other french-speaking pilots isn't your concern. The controllers are required to be able to speak English and to communicate with you in English, and they do. Quite well. Beyond that it's really not your concern.
 
...I still think most french 'intersections' sound the same... Direct where?!
 
The new taxi instructions are worse! "United 123 taxi to 15L a, d, l and hold short of 36" Holding short of 36 just happens to be the first thing there. It seems like an accident waiting to happen.
 
The "new" taxi policy certainly doesn't make things dangerous; it makes things safer. It puts emphasis on hold short portions of the clearance, and more specifically, it requires a dedicated clearance to cross, individually, for each point along the taxi route.
 
avbug said:
Actually, they speak English. That French is spoken to other french-speaking pilots isn't your concern. The controllers are required to be able to speak English and to communicate with you in English, and they do. Quite well. Beyond that it's really not your concern.
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Actually it is my concern. I tend to listen to other pilots concerning weather and flight conditions. It's called CRM, look into it!

Then again, I should thank you as it's your type attitude that probably implemented CRM.:rolleyes:
 
2000Easyguy said:
...it's your type attitude that probably implemented CRM.:rolleyes:
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Haha... True. Have I mentioned I LOVE single pilot?! I do prefer the old taxi clearances and have never had an issue with it.

What I don't like is when the you have intersecting runways and you are cleared to taxi to the active runway (per the ATIS) that will cross the 'inactive runway' yet as you taxi out you see someone land on the intersecting "inactive' runway (likely cause they wanted the straight-in). When you ask ATC to 'Verify we are cleared to cross XX' and they get some attitude about how you were cleared to Taxi to runway XY...

Always better to be safe than sorry but sometimes I think it would be simpler/safer to say you are never cleared to cross a runway without a clearance to do so. I am sure that would increase work-load on ATC and probably have its own drawbacks.
 
Actually it is my concern.
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Ah, so it's you. The Ugly American. Where have you been hiding?

Newsflash; the world is bigger than your cockpit, and there are far more places on the gobe than the US.

That the French speak French in France isn't something that should offend you. It's not your country. It's theirs.

That the French speak English to you is a courtesy and a nod to international convention.

Too bad you're so inconvenienced by not understanding the French language. Perhaps when you're in France, you should speak French...then you wouldn't feel so handicapped. You might not have to make excuses, any more.
What I don't like is when the you have intersecting runways and you are cleared to taxi to the active runway (per the ATIS) that will cross the 'inactive runway' yet as you taxi out you see someone land on the intersecting "inactive' runway (likely cause they wanted the straight-in). When you ask ATC to 'Verify we are cleared to cross XX' and they get some attitude about how you were cleared to Taxi to runway XY...
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This is why we have new taxi clearances...which eliminate that very problem.
 
2000Easyguy said:
Actually it is my concern. I tend to listen to other pilots concerning weather and flight conditions. It's called CRM, look into it!

Then again, I should thank you as it's your type attitude that probably implemented CRM.:rolleyes:
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Burn baby burn!!! Nice. You said what many here were thinking.
 
I'm with you, Ncherches. I prefer the hold short at the end. That to me emphasizes what is important. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the new standard is that you *must* have specific clearance to crosss *any* runway, active or not. So basically just ask every time you reach a hold short line and then you can't screw it up.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the new standard is that you *must* have specific clearance to crosss *any* runway, active or not.
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It really is true that a broken clock can be right once or twice a day. How about that?
 
avbug said:
That the French speak English to you is a courtesy and a nod to international convention.
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"Courtesy"? "Nod"?:rolleyes: Give me a break. I think the ICAO might send France a little memo if the French start thinking that using English is a mere "courtesy" or "nod".

In spite of all the inane drivel you produce of FI.com, I am sure that you're familiar with ICAO.
 

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