Delta and the DC-9s

[BID]

So Delta will retire the DC-9 fleet in October. How many DC9s do you have and how will this affect staffing? Sorry if this has been discussed, I am out of the loop on Delta's plans.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

As I understood, it was just the DC-9-30s that were to be parked this fall, and the -50s will soldier on for another couple years.

 

[ThisistheDream]

DC9-30 and -40 are going to be parked by end of OCT... leaving around 38 DC9-50 in the total dc-9 fleet

 

[BID]

Oh I see. That makes sense. I was thinking that is a lot of airplanes to park!

 

[jetflier]

Last week I flew 9966 DC9-30 to Pinal for retirement. NW/DAL FAA told me that the DC9-30/40 will be pulled into retirement by Sep, leaving the DC9-50 to continue flying. The DC9-50 will receive the "wedge" tail retrofit along with the aerodynamic fairings from the Boeing 717. This is expected to increase fuel efficiency by up to 5% according to Boeing engineering.

Pinal in Mirana has many aircraft there, along with a long row, nose to tail of NWA DC9 -10,30 and 40's stored there. At one point in time, NWA flew 197 DC9's.

 

[cocknbull]

I have been told the it will be at least 2017 until an economic replacement will be available for the -50s and 88s. As a result the -50s will be around through 2012 and the 88s won't begin being phased out until at least 2017. My hope is that mainline will fly these hypothetical replacements!

 

[maxblast72]

I have been told the it will be at least 2017 until an economic replacement will be available for the -50s and 88s. As a result the -50s will be around through 2012 and the 88s won't begin being phased out until at least 2017. My hope is that mainline will fly these hypothetical replacements!

Wouldn't the E-190 be a considered an economical replacement of the DC9-50 series and the Bombardier CS-300 for the MD-80? Of course the main driver of the timing for replacement of these fleets will be the cost of energy going forward.

 

[Tomct]

My hope is that mainline will fly these hypothetical replacements![/QUOTE]


You know, this whole "They against Us" theme is getting old. It was the MAINLINE carriers who were "TOO GOOD" to fly the RJ's in the first place. Of course, when they jumpseat, they are like....WOW...this is a nice flightdeck....(instrument package, not necessarily the room)

The MAINLINE guys dropped the ball on this one! If they would have taken the planes in house problem solved...instead, you have to continue to listen to all of them "Piss and Moan" about how these planes are taking their jobs. Well, how about having a little foresight instead of just focusing on ME...ME....ME! Wow, what a refreshing concept! If they would have been thinking about "down the road," they might have realized that a CRJ can fly as far as most 737-100 models and a CRJ700 and 900 would be able to outfly a Boeing 717. The short sightedness of the mainline guys has KILLED this profession.

Now I know, you will all jump on this and "Cry me a RIVER" about how if these guys would stop taking crappy pay...blah...blah....blah. These people are out there just like everyone else trying to improve their lives. Now I am not in ANY WAY saying that crossing a picket line is okay...EVER. What I am saying is that to come down on someone just trying to get to the next level is pretty crappy to do to someone. ESPECIALLY if they are just trying to get home from a very long trip. Before all you MAJOR guys start casting the stones...have a look at YOUR glass houses. You could have all prevented this, BUT YOU WERE TOO GOOD FOR THE RJ's. Well guess what, that is now biting us all in the proverbial AZZ! Because I guarantee that those guys in the RJ's ever dreamed of "Retiring" in an RJ, I know that was not my dream. The only way I see of fixing this thing is to take all the carriers that are affiliated with a major and merging them "date of hire" among the regional carriers and then stapling them to the bottom of the majors list. Now this would possibly cause an "accordion" effect, but in the long run it would all work out. This would end all of the ALPA Mainline VS Regional guys BS and would eventually start the pay moving in the right direction.

Just some food for thought to all of the MEC's at the Majors out there....okay, LET ME HAVE IT!

PS...wouldn't you guys rather park those old crappy dinosaurs and fly a E-175/190? STATE OF THE ART....no round dials. WOW

 

[JOPILOT]

My hope is that mainline will fly these hypothetical replacements!

Tomct, you also need to consider the lack of leadership at the Regionals...someone still agrees to fly the RJ's for McDonalds Pay and it's certainly not Mainline Pilots. When I began flying at a Regional we fed the Mainline, we did not replace it. No doubt the Mainline MEC's dropped the ball, although it is up to all of us to restore Mainline Pay. This will never happen with today's regional airline pilots' fancy of glass cockpits and tiny- ass paychecks.

Regional Pilot Unions and Associations Please grow a set.

JP

PS, no I would not rather fly an RJ...I traded the glass and cute flight attendants for round dials and bitchy old ladies so I could get paid like a professional.

 

[Tomct]

Jo, I hear what you are saying and I agree, but if they would just merge all the regionals... (ieALPA MEC's get together Majors/regionals with their mainline partners) and just work out a merge/staple...it will be better for everyone in the long run. Then, Pay would start to come up because there would be no one to "low-ball" the other. Just think, no more interviews because as soon as new planes started rolling on property, they would move from the "Express" up to mainline, but we could begin working on improving pay from the ground up. ALL new hires would start in the smaller planes and work their way up. I know this is a broad stroke and would take a lot of work, but I am looking at the BIG PICTURE and DOWN THE ROAD.

 

[Rough67]

!

PS...wouldn't you guys rather park those old crappy dinosaurs and fly a E-175/190? STATE OF THE ART....no round dials. WOW[/QUOTE]


no way.

 

[filejw]

My hope is that mainline will fly these hypothetical replacements!

You know, this whole "They against Us" theme is getting old. It was the MAINLINE carriers who were "TOO GOOD" to fly the RJ's in the first place. Of course, when they jumpseat, they are like....WOW...this is a nice flightdeck....(instrument package, not necessarily the room)

The MAINLINE guys dropped the ball on this one! If they would have taken the planes in house problem solved...instead, you have to continue to listen to all of them "Piss and Moan" about how these planes are taking their jobs. Well, how about having a little foresight instead of just focusing on ME...ME....ME! Wow, what a refreshing concept! If they would have been thinking about "down the road," they might have realized that a CRJ can fly as far as most 737-100 models and a CRJ700 and 900 would be able to outfly a Boeing 717. The short sightedness of the mainline guys has KILLED this profession.

Now I know, you will all jump on this and "Cry me a RIVER" about how if these guys would stop taking crappy pay...blah...blah....blah. These people are out there just like everyone else trying to improve their lives. Now I am not in ANY WAY saying that crossing a picket line is okay...EVER. What I am saying is that to come down on someone just trying to get to the next level is pretty crappy to do to someone. ESPECIALLY if they are just trying to get home from a very long trip. Before all you MAJOR guys start casting the stones...have a look at YOUR glass houses. You could have all prevented this, BUT YOU WERE TOO GOOD FOR THE RJ's. Well guess what, that is now biting us all in the proverbial AZZ! Because I guarantee that those guys in the RJ's ever dreamed of "Retiring" in an RJ, I know that was not my dream. The only way I see of fixing this thing is to take all the carriers that are affiliated with a major and merging them "date of hire" among the regional carriers and then stapling them to the bottom of the majors list. Now this would possibly cause an "accordion" effect, but in the long run it would all work out. This would end all of the ALPA Mainline VS Regional guys BS and would eventually start the pay moving in the right direction.

Just some food for thought to all of the MEC's at the Majors out there....okay, LET ME HAVE IT!

PS...wouldn't you guys rather park those old crappy dinosaurs and fly a E-175/190? STATE OF THE ART....no round dials. WOW[/QUOTE]

Well I'll not let you have it but two things to remember. Most the mainline pilots on property now were not around when the decisions to let RJ's fly the decision was made. And those of us who on properties at the time considered it a contract to contract thing, not permanent. I never like giving up the flying myself but heard every excuse imaginable why we didn't want to fly CRj's. None were valid to me. I think ALPA just got out smarted about 20 years ago and had no vision or foresite.Even as an old guy close my way out I still believe in one color one list...Beer time by

 

[V1cutsrfun]

My hope is that mainline will fly these hypothetical replacements!

....okay, LET ME HAVE IT!

PS...wouldn't you guys rather park those old crappy dinosaurs and fly a E-175/190? STATE OF THE ART....no round dials. WOW[/QUOTE]


I'll take that dinosaur any day.... you can have your SJS... and chase it with a nice dainty shot of Grape Koolaide..... Get a sack!:laugh:

V1

 

[pilotyip]

because they are free

Wouldn't the E-190 be a considered an economical replacement of the DC9-50 series and the Bombardier CS-300 for the MD-80? Of course the main driver of the timing for replacement of these fleets will be the cost of energy going forward.

I would think because the 9's are owned free and clear the over head burden makes them a reasonable airplane to operate. Fly it 5 hours a day with no pressure to get 14 hours of use every day. At least that was the content of a 2002 AW article.

 

[JOPILOT]

Tomct,

A national seniority list would be great, but the problem is not all company's hiring practices are the same and it would cause a flow from one company to another. In theory this would only work if they re-regulated the industry.

JP

 

[Tomct]

Tomct,

A national seniority list would be great, but the problem is not all company's hiring practices are the same and it would cause a flow from one company to another. In theory this would only work if they re-regulated the industry.

JP

Jo, I am not sure you would have people leaving any list after they were hired say at "Delta Connection," because they would never have to interview again and they would eventually flow up to mainline. I see what you are saying about "different hiring practices," but lets be honest here...that is only for some companies who try and say that THEY are the Best. Like I said, it would take sacrifice by all involved, but in the end, it would be better for everyone.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Jo, I am not sure you would have people leaving any list after they were hired say at "Delta Connection," because they would never have to interview again and they would eventually flow up to mainline. I see what you are saying about "different hiring practices," but lets be honest here...that is only for some companies who try and say that THEY are the Best. Like I said, it would take sacrifice by all involved, but in the end, it would be better for everyone.

So you're telling me that the Mesa hiring process is equal to the Delta hiring process? or the UPS process?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The only reason that is has become us versus them is because there is no career porgression over the last 10 years. People have decided to make the Regional Airline their home and therefore hope and work towards gaining more flying as it falls off the mainline list. It betters their career expectations. That is very simple and should be expected.
Mainline needs to stop the sale of flying so that there is one again in place a reason to leave the 100K job at a regional and move to mainline. Many of us still did it, but there are many that are choosing not to.

We need to keep the 100 seat flying, make the jet arrive and fly on the mainline list. When this happens the normal order will start to once again occur. Until we stop giving away flying that is below a persons current seniority we can expect there to be a conflict between those at mainline and those at a regional.

Fighting for more flying to fall off the mainline lists is very short sighted, but given the career span of the majority of regional pilots, it is what they have seen and come to expect.

Mainline needs to take the first step.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The E-170/-195 is WAY too small to replace the -9-50s. They are the Bombardier large "C" size. Bombardier is rumoured to be looking into a larger "C" that WOULD compete with the later models of 737/Airbus-321 and the MDs.

NWA was planing to buy the "C" to replace the -9s. DAL was also looking at it.

cliff
NBO

 

[Tomct]

Hi!

The E-170/-195 is WAY too small to replace the -9-50s. They are the Bombardier large "C" size. Bombardier is rumoured to be looking into a larger "C" that WOULD compete with the later models of 737/Airbus-321 and the MDs.

NWA was planing to buy the "C" to replace the -9s. DAL was also looking at it.

cliff
NBO

Cliff, the DC-9 only holds 90 people. The E175-E195 hold just as many and more. It goes from 90-125pax. So I am not sure by what you mean by saying they are WAY too small...they are actually BIGGER. Check out the specks for yourself, AND they are state of the art. Just saying...


Well lets be honest, no the hiring practices are not the same, but you still have D!CKS at all places, so it would most likely be a wash in the end. Again, look at the "Big Picture" of where it would take us in the next 10-15yrs.


ACL, I agree with you, but it is up to us to make this change happen for the betterment of our profession. Otherwise you are going to be hearing about how Majors continue to get smaller and Regionals get bigger....and the paychecks will still suck! I am just trying to make this a better place for all, and we need to start some "outside the box" kind of thinking...because the thought process right now is NOT getting it done.

 

[Superpilot92]

Cliff, the DC-9 only holds 90 people. The E175-E195 hold just as many and more. It goes from 90-125pax. So I am not sure by what you mean by saying they are WAY too small...they are actually BIGGER. Check out the specks for yourself, AND they are state of the art. Just saying....

This is incorrect, our DC9's hold anywhere from 99 to 124 seats depending on if its a -30/-40/-50 model. After this Sept-Oct all we'll have left is the DC9-50 model which is the 124 seat version. Sounds like you should "check the specs" yourself!

 

[volav8r1]

Actually guys,

The DC-9-30 = 100 seats

DC-9-40= 110 seats

DC-9-50 = 125 seats

I think you are getting the 124 seats from the airbus 319.

Just posting this for accuracy, not trying to stir the pot.

 

[Schwanker]

Actually guys,

The DC-9-30 = 100 seats

DC-9-40= 110 seats

DC-9-50 = 125 seats

I think you are getting the 124 seats from the airbus 319.

Just posting this for accuracy, not trying to stir the pot.

Thanks! It's nice to see somebody post something factual!

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

The only reason that is has become us versus them is because there is no career porgression over the last 10 years. People have decided to make the Regional Airline their home and therefore hope and work towards gaining more flying as it falls off the mainline list. It betters their career expectations. That is very simple and should be expected.
Mainline needs to stop the sale of flying so that there is one again in place a reason to leave the 100K job at a regional and move to mainline. Many of us still did it, but there are many that are choosing not to.

We need to keep the 100 seat flying, make the jet arrive and fly on the mainline list. When this happens the normal order will start to once again occur. Until we stop giving away flying that is below a persons current seniority we can expect there to be a conflict between those at mainline and those at a regional.

Fighting for more flying to fall off the mainline lists is very short sighted, but given the career span of the majority of regional pilots, it is what they have seen and come to expect.

Mainline needs to take the first step.

Exactly!

 

[727RedTails]

Tmcat, you can have your piece of crap 175-190, I was at JetBlue, just ask them about the 190 reliability. I could care less about a glass cockpit, I'm all about days off and pay. The downtown layovers are fun also. The 9 is fun to fly and very reliable.

 

[OzBushWhacker]

The DC-9-30 = 100 seats

DC-9-40= 110 seats

DC-9-50 = 125 seats

I think you are getting the 124 seats from the airbus 319.

Just posting this for accuracy, not trying to stir the pot.

But what if you MEL some of the seats????

 

[Ed Harley]

DAL management has said many times that the E190 and 195 doesn't have the range, lift, and efficiency to make it an economical replacement for the the DC9's (that are paid for).

And for what it's worth, NWA management has been saying they're going to park the DC9's for the last 15 years and they never do. My guess is that the DC9-50's will be flying at DAL for the next 10 years. It's a tank, very reliable and they're paid for.

 

[Tomct]

This is incorrect, our DC9's hold anywhere from 99 to 124 seats depending on if its a -30/-40/-50 model. After this Sept-Oct all we'll have left is the DC9-50 model which is the 124 seat version. Sounds like you should "check the specs" yourself!

Then I guess Boeing is wrong??? http://www.boeing.com/commercial/dc-9/specs.html

Here are the E-195 specs. http://www.embraercommercialjets.com/#/en/products_detail/4

According to what is published, the 195 beats the 9 in range by almost 600nm, so I don't know what NWA mgmnt was looking at???

Redtail, when the 190's first came online at JB, they WERE a nightmare. But now that they have learned all of the fixes, I am told by a friend who flies them at Blue, that they are very reliable. But hey, if you want to continue doing a "T-Scan" and blowing black smoke...by all means, keep flying those dinosaurs. HAVE FUN! uke:

Ed, the more I think about it, I am sure that they will continue flying that thing until the wings fall off. I guess that is why NWA had the oldest fleet in the entire world, but at what point does burning a TON of gas/maintenance start cutting into a new "Fuel sipping" bird?

Just going by what is published.

 

[Griswold]

Tomct,
Your ideas will never happen. Just do your time at the regional and get out when you can. The QOL is night and day. If some regional CA is telling you different, the answer is simple, He hasn't been at mainline yet.

 

[CA1900]

Then I guess Boeing is wrong??? http://www.boeing.com/commercial/dc-9/specs.html

Yes, that site is wrong. That should be blatantly obvious to you, since it shows the DC-9-10 and DC-9-50 has having the exact same passenger capacity, despite the -50 being 29 feet longer than the -10.

Here's a more reliable source, from a company that flies the airplane and sells 125 tickets on it very regularly: http://www.delta.com/planning_reservations/plan_flight/aircraft_types_layout/dc9_50/index.jsp

But hey, if you want to continue doing a "T-Scan" and blowing black smoke...by all means, keep flying those dinosaurs. HAVE FUN! uke:

I'll take old avionics and a big paycheck any day over something shiny that pays peanuts.