Resigning Seniority

[commuterguy]

This is proving to be a much tougher decision than I imagined it would be. I've been offered a job with a regional, which I will admit seems like a blessing after being out of ANY work for 9 months. But they will make us give up or seniority/recall rights. The flip side is I have no good feeling for if or when the frac world will pick up and start recalling. It's turning my stomach trying to decide what to do...anyone who's crystal ball is working who wouldn't mind sharing some insight please do...mine broke long ago.

 

[OPECJet]

Depends on if unemployment has run out, which frac you're giving up rights to, whether that frac will still give you a recall even if you send in the letter, which regional, their outlook etc...

The only regionals I can think of hiring are Colgan, Whiskey, and Eagle.

Colgan - No way I'd give up recall rights. Might as well work at Home Depot or something of that nature.

Whiskey - Anybody's guess whether they'll furlough you when flying drops off, plus their future is uncertain.

Eagle - Non-existent upgrade, but that could change. Being tied to AA might be a bad thing though as all manner of labor issues are headed their way.

If you can do it, I'd explore things without wings for a while and wait out the furlough. Whatever you choose, I hope it's the right decisions for you, and wish you the best!

 

[brokeflyer]

just tell them you will give up your recall.....just dont actually do it. if they want you to sign something then sign it. it wont hold up in court if you quit to go back to your frac.

all those regionals are $hitbag operators that would sell you out in a second. Mkae sure you give them the same respect.

 

[Hung Start]

Broke,,,you are giving out bad advice.

I agree with you that most companies will sell you out in a second. All we are is a simple commodity,,, a wrench, a hammer,, whatever. When it wears out or breaks you just buy another.
But, to tell someone NOT to honor their word is just plain bad advice. If you have no value in your word,,your honor,,, why should I ever trust you???? Ever!!

You lie to them, you lie to me, it never ends.

Sorry, Broke. I know you are finished with the routine. You have done your time. I respect that and commend you for all the years you served this industry.

But remember. The ONLY thing you take to the grave is your honor. Don't mess it up.

Regards

Hung

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I'd tend to side with Broke. Fk'em!

 

[gunfyter]

I'd tend to side with Broke. Fk'em!

Me too. If they don't want people to leave ... raise the pay. " Make an offer you don't refuse..."

 

[jetwash]

If I recall correctly this question was brought up at FLOPS about a year ago with guys being asked to resign their seniority at FLOPS for other jobs.

The way I understood it was, when you are furloughed they put you in a frozen state and your resignation would not be accepted until they are ready to recall you. You will then be asked at that time if you still want to resign. Until then you can resign and withdraw the resignation anytime.

I don't know if this is at all Fracs or just at FLOPS or if I understood the procedure correctly.

Call your union MEC and ask them, they should have that info.

 

[Hung Start]

Me too. If they don't want people to leave ... raise the pay. " Make an offer you don't refuse..."

Absolutely no arguement on the pay. We all need to know our worth.

My point is the fact that we should never give an outright lie.

If they ask you to sign a letter of resignation, either you do, or you don't.

But don't compromise your ethics. Ever. Never ever.

Just because they are liers, cheats and thieves, you don't need to join them.

The gospel according to Hung.
That concludes today's lesson.

But I truly mean it.

Hung

 

[gunfyter]

Its an unfair labor practice unless they require all employees to similarly be anchored to the company, or they guarantee you a job for life....

As it stands ... one week after you start you can be furloughed... and then with no recall rights at the frac....

 

[cjdriver]

Agreed

 

[dime line]

remember "Your Honor" dosent put food on the table,(in this context). Most managements of today could care less about you. So in my book its just business, nothing personal

 

[Hung Start]

remember "Your Honor" dosent put food on the table,(in this context). Most managements of today could care less about you. So in my book its just business, nothing personal

Yes, I understand.

But the same explaination was used by people that crossed the picket line, by countless repressed people who turned a blind eye,,blah, blah, blah.
All I'm saying is if you talk the talk, walk the walk.

Don't lie. Don't compomise yourself.

I am not so nieve that I don't know how it works. But I don't choose to be part of that process. And, I'm doing ok.

Hung

 

[The Kman]

As far as the regionals are concerned, training contracts or seniority resignation letters are not worth the paper they are written on. I have signed a few and never had a problem getting out of them. Regardless, when the time comes for a recall, the company will call. Good luck.

 

[johnsonrod]

Don't give up your number. Tell them you did and that's it. I agree - the regional will furlough you the minute the economy starts to waver - and with Barry "the Socialist" Obama in charge, you can expect the economy to either grow at a glacial pace or dip again.

 

[dime line]

Yes, I understand.

But the same explaination was used by people that crossed the picket line, by countless repressed people who turned a blind eye,,blah, blah, blah.
All I'm saying is if you talk the talk, walk the walk.

Don't lie. Don't compomise yourself.

I am not so nieve that I don't know how it works. But I don't choose to be part of that process. And, I'm doing ok.

Hung

We will agree to disagree. Nothing personal, just business

 

[AftCG182]

Being former Colgan, I can tell you that Colgan is a sh!tbag operator. They'll use you for their purposes and hang you out to dry when it suits them.

The Pilot group is one of the best you'll ever work with.

If you have an opportunity there, plan to serve out the training contract... they'll most likely come after you if you don't finish it. While the pay is industry sub-standard, if you can grab a street Captain gig- go for it. It'll carry you through the rest of our tough times. Then make a break back to the Fracs.

JMHO, as always. Good luck-

 

[commuterguy]

Thanks for all the advice guys... I seriously feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place. A little more detail:

My frac doesn't have a union. Any resignation letter will be recieved as a resignation. End of story, that much I know.

The regional is having us sign something resigning our seniority on day one of class, they will then send it in to the former employer.

So in my mind the decision is 1) take the flying job during one of the worst pilot job markets ever and hope that getting into the cockpit will help me when mass hiring resumes

2) continue being unemployed and looking, while hoping my previous employer calls me back (which would be rather nice at this point, but no idea what they are doing)

 

[Hung Start]

We will agree to disagree. Nothing personal, just business

Good deal! :beer:

Cheers

Hung

 

[AppBrookie]

While furloughed from a major, I took a job at a LCC. Day 2 of Indoc, they made us sign a form letter resigning our seniority(70% of us were furloughed from a major). I am almost certain that the resignation was sent in on our behalf. I eventually went back to the major job and it was never mentioned. It just boils down to how your old company handles it, worth a call to find out.

 

[glasspilot]

Don't give up your number. Tell them you did and that's it. I agree - the regional will furlough you the minute the economy starts to waver - and with Barry "the Socialist" Obama in charge, you can expect the economy to either grow at a glacial pace or dip again.

Nice work bringing in politics! This is certianly the place and thread to discuss it.

- like him or not he IS the POTUS and deserves your respect, unless, of course, you prefer to wipe your a$$ with the US flag.

- a year ago the Economy was in a free fall. Mass starvation, 80% enemployment type free fall.

- when your main point is crazy, like calling the President a Socialist, or drawing a Joker face on him, or Rush makes sense, or Glenn Beck is on your side, then you KNOW you hooked your political wagon to the wrong party.


PS. I don't want these threads to go political either, but I'm not gonna let trash like that go by unchecked either.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Most aviation jobs out there aren't worth much these days anyway.

If I were furloughed from a non union frac and was interviewing at a regional, here is what I would do.

Call an aviation attorney and get some advice about training contracts and letters of resignation.

Practices like these are just part of what has ruined this profession. We are not indentured servants.

 

[hmmm]

After growing up literally, in this business and seen most all anyone my age of 43 could see. I have to totally agree with Broke. You owe it to your passengers to be a proper upstanding individual. But anyone that would drop you in a moments notice like a regional does not deserve the same respect you have for your passengers.

Now a company that is worth something and decent to their people in the confines of business and respect for its customers and employees is a different story.

It's like how you land on a long runway or a short one. Big Picture.

A regional doesn't care about you and will not be there for you in a down turn.

Get a job at Home Depot before going back to a regional.

Anyone in college and thinking about a career in flying must have a low IQ.

The reason we went to the regional was to get time to go to a real airline.

You need PIC for that. And the big airlines aren't going to hire anymore appreciably. They are going to continue to shrink and fulough at a drop of a hat because its the bottom line which will average out your total lifes pay to equal a regualr jobs pay and living at home with your family.

The regional pilots are all young and they are not going to be retiring any time soon in order to get an upgrade for even money concerns.

We are at the end of the ride. It is less than a blue collar job now.

4 days a week at 6 legs a day with 4.5 hours of sleep and waiting for the hotel van for 45 min to an hour with no dinner and maybe a stale hampton inn bagel for breakfast? For what?

And reserve on low pay at a crash pad.... sure. ok.

The bull sheet artists at the colleges trying to get training money are doing a dis-service to kids and are essentially scamming them with the lies they tell. You would think a parent that has the ability to pay for college would have the IQ to do the research and see through this scam on all fronts.

Properly over thought out Rant over.

me..l.. I was just born in it and didn't have to pay for training an already had the licenses so what the heck i rode the ride till it ran out of gas.

In fact I am sure I am one of the very few that got on at a major without a college degree. I even dropped out of high school to take care of my fathers aviation business when he was sick and got a GED and I didn't even know anyone at any airline i ever hired on at except on dirt bag operator that I left because the stuff they were doing maintenance wise.

What a thread drift.

 

[gunfyter]

How much will they pay you for that letter of Resignation? They should pay a signing bonus of $50 to $100K.... Then resign.

 

[smartelephant]

Nice work bringing in politics! This is certianly the place and thread to discuss it.

- like him or not he IS the POTUS and deserves your respect, unless, of course, you prefer to wipe your a$$ with the US flag.

- a year ago the Economy was in a free fall. Mass starvation, 80% enemployment type free fall.

- when your main point is crazy, like calling the President a Socialist, or drawing a Joker face on him, or Rush makes sense, or Glenn Beck is on your side, then you KNOW you hooked your political wagon to the wrong party.


PS. I don't want these threads to go political either, but I'm not gonna let trash like that go by unchecked either.

Come on Glass, mass starvation and 80% unemployment? That's a bit extreme don't you think? Besides, if the man want's to call the president a socialist, he has that right guaranteed to him by the first amendment. And maybe the POTUS should show the American people that same level of respect you say he demands, and stop craming his unwanted policies down our throught. And NO, my screen name has nothing to do with any political party affiliation.

Now, for CG, if the regional is Colgan then go to the Depot. That place is not worth it. I spent 3 1/2 miserable years there chasing the same dream everyone else was, only in the end to go to a frac and be much, much happier. If it's another regional, then make the best call you can but DON'T give up that recall right. Any of the frac's are much better than the regional's. All the way around.

 

[fob727]

Nice work bringing in politics! This is certianly the place and thread to discuss it.

- like him or not he IS the POTUS and deserves your respect, unless, of course, you prefer to wipe your a$$ with the US flag.

- a year ago the Economy was in a free fall. Mass starvation, 80% enemployment type free fall.

- when your main point is crazy, like calling the President a Socialist, or drawing a Joker face on him, or Rush makes sense, or Glenn Beck is on your side, then you KNOW you hooked your political wagon to the wrong party.


PS. I don't want these threads to go political either, but I'm not gonna let trash like that go by unchecked either.

Now that's funny, I don't care who you are:beer:

 

[airjackson]

Call your CP at the Frac and tell him what's going on. Tell him that you have no intention of turning down a recall but that in order to put food on the table, you are taking a job w/ a regional that needs to think that you won't come back. Your CP should understand. HE"S (or at least the frac company) has invested a lot of money in you and would probably like you to return as well. If he has an ounce of compassion he'll tell you to take the job, take care of the family, and toss the "letter"- whenever it arrives, in the circular file.
I'm with the vast majority here. No regional is worth that. They'll toss you aside on a whim but they want you to commit to them?? Laughable.

 

[brokeflyer]

give them your home address for the letter to be sent to.

 

[johnsonrod]

Call your CP at the Frac and tell him what's going on. Tell him that you have no intention of turning down a recall but that in order to put food on the table, you are taking a job w/ a regional that needs to think that you won't come back. Your CP should understand. HE"S (or at least the frac company) has invested a lot of money in you and would probably like you to return as well. If he has an ounce of compassion he'll tell you to take the job, take care of the family, and toss the "letter"- whenever it arrives, in the circular file.
I'm with the vast majority here. No regional is worth that. They'll toss you aside on a whim but they want you to commit to them?? Laughable.

I totally agree with this. Call the CP at the frac and ask for his advice... But mention you want to come back as soon as able.


Hey Glasspilot, just answer me this: how will adding 32 million people to healthcare (most of which doesn't begin for 3-4 years - but your customers will be paying for it now) actually help to reduce our deficit? I need a clear explanation. Do you seriously believe that will happen when people basically get a blank check to use healthcare as much as they want? And what ever happened to Barry's promise to address tort reform to reduce costly frivilous lawsuits that force doctors to perform expensive defensive medicine (and drive costs up)? Does it help that Sebelius (HHS Secretary) was the former head of the Kansas Tort Lawyers Assoication?

Whether you agree or not, one thing is for certain: our grandchildren will be paying this bill for decades and decades to come... We are talking about a forced redistribution of wealth =====> Socialism. Welcome to the United States of France.

 

[chignutsak]

My God, take the political BS to the non-aviation forum. You are sure to get accurate, expert answers to all your questions there.

 

[FastJP4]

Call your CP at the Frac and tell him what's going on. Tell him that you have no intention of turning down a recall

Pretty good advice. Although keep in mind, you have zero protection. What they say today will probably be different than what they'll say tomorrow.

in order to put food on the table, you are taking a job w/ a regional

Funniest thing I've heard in a long time. I guess if you live in a tent, you might be able to put food on the table, the only benefit is your adding to total time and staying current. You can make more at McDonalds flipping burgers than being a 1st yr regional FO.

I'm with the vast majority here. No regional is worth that. They'll toss you aside on a whim but they want you to commit to them?? Laughable

Yuppers