CAL Management Proposal, Delta's Contract

[BID]

Today, our management offered Delta's contract. If it ever came down to a vote, which I highly doubt it will I would vote NO in a second. Scope relief no thanks.

Oh yeah it is Delta's contract plus a dollar and there wold be no ALPA board member.

 

[cybourg10]

Wow I didn't see that coming.

IF this is true I bet it passes (unfortunately). Expect to see plenty of 76 seat mainline jets flown by regionals soon in CAL colors.

 

[BID]

I hope we never get the opportunity to vote on this. 76 seat jets is way too big for regional flying.

If Delta's contract is so great, then why is it that I do not want it?

This is going to be a great test for our pilot group and our union reps. We shall see!

FUPM!

 

[cybourg10]

I hope we never get the opportunity to vote on this. 76 seat jets is way too big for regional flying.

If Delta's contract is so great, then why is it that I do not want it?

This is going to be a great test for our pilot group and our union reps. We shall see!

FUPM!

Agreed. Stand strong.

 

[BID]

thanks!

I have not been at CAL long, but my ears are always open. What I hear is a feed up pilot group. I don't think this will make it to a vote. (boy I hope not!)

 

[cybourg10]

Counter proposal idea:

Delta + $5 - scope relief.

 

[HHH]

Counter proposal idea:

Delta + $5 - scope relief.

I'm glad we don't have 4 year Xjet FO's on our MEC!

Not a penny less than our proposal in December. I'm ready to walk away from Jeff's lottery ticket forever.

 

[cybourg10]

I'm glad we don't have 4 year Xjet FO's on our MEC!

Not a penny less than our proposal in December. I'm ready to walk away from Jeff's lottery ticket forever.

I didn't know D+5 was less than the original offer. I'm glad I'm not on your MEC either. Good luck guys.

 

[BigMotorToter]

The Delta pilots on the property in the early 90's have done more damage to the pilot profession than any scabs that crossed any picket line.

They single handedly allowed the RJ disease to infect the piloting career for ALL of us.

Unfortunatly I think it's too late and this career is terminal for most of us.

I hope you guys don't get "hypmotized" by the pay and think long term in regards to scope.

Just remember, the pay is only good if your on the property to receive it.

 

[Superpilot92]

The DAL contract, while a little better post merger, is still a bankruptcy contract thats been modified. Dont fall for their games! Our contract + 1 isnt even close to what ya'lls initial proposal was. Fight strong and do not except a modified post bankruptcy contract.

NEVER SELL SCOPE! WITHOUT IT THE REST OF YOUR CONTRACT IS WORTHLESS!

 

[mishap]

I hope you guys don't get "hypmotized" by the pay and think long term in regards to scope.

The pay is a pay cut for some, and a small pay raise for others, I don't think there is any danger of us being "hypnotized" by a pay cut.

Scope is a non starter, I will not vote yes on a contract that gives up jets bigger than the 50 seaters.

I don't know enough about the rest of the contract to comment on, I am sure the work rules kick our current CBA's ass, but as you said, without scope, there be no jobs.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

If you guys take the DAL contract, just go ahead and lop off the bottom 1,000 guys off your list.

At a minimum.

Nu

 

[Crucianpilot]

Counter offer :

Southwest's Contract + 10% and no scope relief. We can play that game too.:angryfire

 

[Muskycat]

Today, our management offered Delta's contract. If it ever came down to a vote, which I highly doubt it will I would vote NO in a second. Scope relief no thanks.

Oh yeah it is Delta's contract plus a dollar and there wold be no ALPA board member.

You do want the Delta contract, but the one we had in 2001. And then fix the scope issues.

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

Once again as a regional guy who wants to work for Continental someday...

CAL pilots, PLEASE vote no on this offer. Any relaxation of your scope renders the rest of the contract worthless. They'll gladly throw you a (small) bone, hoping that you'll take your eye off the ball and give in on the best thing you've got going for you. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but a pre 9/11 type contract doesn't do you any good if they're just going to farm out the flying to every regional begging for any job they can get.

 

[General Lee]

I hope we never get the opportunity to vote on this. 76 seat jets is way too big for regional flying.

If Delta's contract is so great, then why is it that I do not want it?

This is going to be a great test for our pilot group and our union reps. We shall see!

FUPM!

Don't give away scope. Get the pay raises, but stand strong on scope. Also, scope means RJs and other things, like INTL scope too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SuperFLUF]

Hell NO to scope relief.

It also "included" no retro. Effective date 1/1/2010. This is just a slick attempt at a counter proposal. What else would we expect from a lawyer CEO who uses twisted language to pretend he's taking a pay cut?

Even though the reps have said there will be no budging on scope or retro, write them anyways. The terrified, panty-waist class of '83 will be screaming for the MEC to accept this counter so don't let the vocal minority be the only ones heard.


Oh, wait. No need to worry about retro. Cuz with this awesome Delta + $1 proposal I would be making $600 less per month. Sweeeeeet.

 

[mynameisjim]

Check out your new 'RJ' with that contract:

Biggest RJ
Accommodation: 76 passengers
Cruising Speed: 529 mph
Range: 2,416 miles
Wing Span: 85 ft 4 in
Length: 103 ft 11 in
Tail Height: 32 ft 3 in

Smallest Mainline
Accommodation: 124 passengers
Crusing Speed: 491 mph
Range: 2,270 miles
Wing Span: 94 ft 9 in
Length: 109 ft 7 in
Tail Height: 36 ft 6 in

 

[Homer Jay]

This is a DEFINITE NO VOTE!!!

 

[CLARKGRSWOLD]

Please vote yes !!!!! I have always wanted to fly a big rj and be based out of ewr !!!!!! Please give me my worst nightmare..

 

[JOPILOT]

This will pass, any takers? JP

 

[Homer Jay]

ALL CAL PILOTS,

E-mail you reps immediately! Tell them to not even entertain this POS and that scope is not, nor will it EVER, be for sale. Go to calalpa.org to get your reps e-mails addresses and let your voice be heard. Tell them not only no, but F*** NO!

 

[Mr.B]

ALL CAL PILOTS,

E-mail you reps immediately! Tell them to not even entertain this POS and that scope is not, nor will it EVER, be for sale. Go to calalpa.org to get your reps e-mails addresses and let your voice be heard. Tell them not only no, but F*** NO!

Hopefully you guys will have the sense that was lacking at UAL and an MEC Chairman who is not willing to sign a back-room deal. This most definitely cause the furlough of HUNDREDS of CAL pilots. Why do you think management wants this? They are NOT increasing capacity, only outsourcing jobs...YOUR job.

It happened at UAL....It will happen at CAL.

Now, will the more senior pilots throw the juniors under the bus? Its happened before.

 

[motch]

While I find it semi funny (that management can't do any better than Delta +1$) I also see some good in it-

1) Delta is a post bankruptcy contract. Now the Union can go back and say.. sure, lets look at pre bankruptcy contract and talk!

2) What are the rules governing RJ's to mainline flying at Delta? Thought there was something at Delta that limited the amount of RJ's compared to mainline aircraft.

3) Lets not forget the $1.2 Billion that was used to sweeten the pot for the Delta/NWA merged pilot group.

4) No Retro = No vote.

5) Does Delta have a 100 seater agreement in their contract?

6) As far as guys saying they would make less with a Delta contract here, you need to prove that to me. A few friends at Delta that are around my hire date here, make alittle more BUT work alot less... big difference~

I guess we can now work with the DALPA group and close their loopholes with our new contract. management has now said that we are the same as they are... cool.
No more 756 guys flying both international and domestic flying. Separate BES's for 757-200 and 767-400. IRO's on most flights.. Full double crews for the triples.. no more 1 Capt and 3 FO's... list can go on and on!

Thank you Management for finally admitting that you have been taking advantage of this pilot group and now want to get us closer in line with the worlds largest carrier!
It's gonna be great when we are marching on a picket line next year, with Delta pilots in support.. cause we demand BETTER than the Delta contract!

Always
Motch

FUPM~DARMA~Shut it Down

 

[motch]

This will pass, any takers? JP

I'll take the bet that in 18 months from now.. I'm either walking a Picket line or will have gotten a much better contract.

This will not pass.

Motch

FUPM~DARMA~Shut it Down

 

[mishap]

Don't give away scope. Get the pay raises, but stand strong on scope. Also, scope means RJs and other things, like INTL scope too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

That's just it, it's not a pay raise! In some equipment it is a small raise, in other it is a pay cut. The retirement is less than current book, the pay guarantee's are less than current book. For a reserve 737 captain it would be a $7000/year pay cut!!

Your work rules are a great starting point, scope and pay are a non starter.

 

[PapaSiera]

That's just it, it's not a pay raise! In some equipment it is a small raise, in other it is a pay cut. The retirement is less than current book, the pay guarantee's are less than current book. For a reserve 737 captain it would be a $7000/year pay cut!!

Your work rules are a great starting point, scope and pay are a non starter.

2 things. There are still 8% in raises that are not accounted for in Airline Pilot Central, and also a 2% increase for retirement. It would be interesting to know if CAL management added that in.

 

[PapaSiera]

Also, don't forget that DL pilots get a 2% 401k contribution without pilots having to contribute themselves. So currently they are at 12% total, with 2% more to add. So total retirement would be 14%.

 

[SuperFLUF]

....

6) As far as guys saying they would make less with a Delta contract here, you need to prove that to me. A few friends at Delta that are around my hire date here, make alittle more BUT work alot less... big difference~
....

12 year DAL 737NG Capt +$1 = $169/hr. @ resv. guar. 70 hrs = $11,830

12 year CAL 737 Capt blended rate $163.53/hr @ resv. guar. 76 hrs = $12,428

vacation months pay $13,327 - $14,071

I know that good work rules = soft time = less time away for more $$

But I seriously doubt that would amount to over $7000/yr for a reserve pilot and even if it did it would only get a resv 737 ca back to concessionary contract '02 levels. I don't want to have more days off for the same money, I want it for more money. The loan is due and I want a return on what I "invested".

So, no f'n way to DAL +$1. I would not vote yes if they capitulated and agreed to our current economic proposal.

We HAVE the leverage. "The rent's due.....and don't you be pullin' that fallin' down the stairs sh*^ again..."

 

[motch]

Mishap, can you show me where it would be a pay cut?
It's a no vote in my book, anyway..

CAL 737 rates
12 yr Capt= 150/169 (depending on which model)
6 yr Capt= 142/161
12 yr FO= 102/116 (depending on which model)
6 yr FO= 91/104

Delta 737 rates
12 yr Capt= 168
6 yr Capt= 160
12 yr FO= 114
6 yr FO= 104

When you add the whooping $1.. Captain rates are the same, FO rate could be $1 less is flying the large 737's

Don't forget, the Delta contract also has $6/$4 International Override.

The Big problem I see, (Besides the blaring SCOPE issue!) is the min guarantee.
At Delta it's ALOT lower than ours. But it's my understanding that Delta has Green (colored?!) slips that greatly improve their pay for flights that they pick up as extra.

I think management screwed the pooch here with thinking we'd go for this. Then again, maybe they put it out knowing we'd say no.. just to gauge our commitment!

Motch