If/When Spirit Strikes

[AirCobra]

What is the difference between Spirit, JetBlue, SWA, Allegiant, AirTran and so on?

When did SWA, JetBlue, Allegiant, AirTran cross the line from fly-by-night low cost airline to world class airline?

I DO NOT MEAN TO OFFEND ANYONE AT SWA, JetBlue, Allegiant, AirTran

I'm just trying to make a point with Mr. Poop on Spirit or AirCobra as his screen name might suggest.

Their is nothing wrong wath any of those airlines, its just like hotels or department stores, there are Red Roof Inns and there are Hilton's, there are Dollar Stores and there is Macy's.

Take Southwest, they are not "World Class", they don't even fly to Mexico or Canada. The reason Southwest pays on par with world class airlines is because they have made a profit over the last few decades. Take that profit away and within minutes Southwest will be trying to get concessions from its labor groups.

I look at Spirit and although all the ALPA material says they are making money hand over fist and taking hiding from the poor pilots, there rather slow growth over the past few years makes it seem they are on pretty shaky financial ground.

Spirit has always occupied that niche along with Allegiant, National, Kiwi, Skybus, Western Pacific or Sun Country, a niche somewhere between a major and a regional. These type of airlines are always the most volatile and most of the airlines on that list I just gave are gone. Seems if you took a job at Spirit it was a little bit of a gamble from the get go given the nature of the company you keep. Spirit's business model dictates it can only exist if it keeps its overhead at an absolute minimum, that's why you have the crappy pay and crappy schedule in the first place. You guys want to test that business model by dramatically increasing overhead and saying you are worth much higher pay without the proven track record of a Southwest or AirTran, well I hope you succeed, but in reality if you do succeed you will be the first.

My two cents, and it probably not even worth that, is that Spirit's labor groups should be going into save the company mode. Work with management to get the company pointed in the right direction and growing, instead of contracting or stagnating. When things improve and Spirit has a more established track record of success, then go for the pay increases and better schedules. I think a strike now will only put you on the street because given where air travel is headed in this economy there may be no Spirit to return to.

 

[pilotyip]

oh no notthe speeling plocie

Well mebbe not, but at least we know how to spell whippersnapper...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/whippersnapper

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Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a
wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! If you can raed tihs forwrad it.

 

[Ty Webb]

You guys want to test that business model by dramatically increasing overhead and saying you are worth much higher pay without the proven track record of a Southwest or AirTran, well I hope you succeed, but in reality if you do succeed you will be the first.

Actually, they are qwell on their way to being the third, since AirTran and SWA did exactly that. I think you can also plan on Allegiant being the fourth.

My two cents, and it probably not even worth that, is that Spirit's labor groups should be going into save the company mode. Work with management to get the company pointed in the right direction and growing, instead of contracting or stagnating.

I understand what you're saying, having been through it at AirTran, but that only works if the Company accepts you as a partner, and Spirit's management team doesn't have a copy of that playbook. AirTran used to have that playbook, but lost it.

When things improve and Spirit has a more established track record of success, then go for the pay increases and better schedules. I think a strike now will only put you on the street because given where air travel is headed in this economy there may be no Spirit to return to.

Spirit won't take it to the mat. Greedy management types have nowhere else to go right now, either. I say get what you can, or shut it down, but I don't work there, so talk is cheap.

Spirit pilots, we are all watching what you're going through, and we support you 100%, or at least as much as we can under the train wreck that is the RLA.

 

[Mike man]

...and crappy schedule in the first place...

In all honesty our schedules are no worse than any other airline schedule...and we have the one diamond in our expired contract the 4 days off between trips.

I guess what I am wondering mostly is why would we agree to that steaming pile of a contract that management is offering? I would certainly be much more happy with no changes to the current contract and keep the 4 days off then get a huge raise and go to 2 days off between trips...my .02.

By your logic above AirCobra SWA is not world class because they don't fly to Canada or Mexico; then Spirit must be a world class operation because we fly to Mexico, South and Central America and most of the Caribbean plus a handful of CONUS cities.

What does it take to have a proven track record?

 

[Mamma]

What does it take to have a proven track record?

A lot of gay FAs in khaki shorts for one buddy!

 

[Mike man]

A lot of gay FAs in khaki shorts for one buddy!

Nice.

We have one of those things...I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count.

 

[AirCobra]

Actually, they are qwell on their way to being the third, since AirTran and SWA did exactly that. I think you can also plan on Allegiant being the fourth.

I understand what you're saying, having been through it at AirTran, but that only works if the Company accepts you as a partner, and Spirit's management team doesn't have a copy of that playbook. AirTran used to have that playbook, but lost it.Spirit won't take it to the mat. Greedy management types have nowhere else to go right now, either. I say get what you can, or shut it down, but I don't work there, so talk is cheap.

Spirit pilots, we are all watching what you're going through, and we support you 100%, or at least as much as we can under the train wreck that is the RLA.

I just checked Allegiant has the lowest pay of any of the airlines you mentioned so ??????????????.

My second point is are you seriously comparing AirTran and SWA to the airline of MILF, MUFF, and the lowest customer satisfaction rating in the industry? The $200 or so a SWA senior Captain gets per hour came after decades of stability, growth, and profit, not after a few years of what has ostensibly been a flying circus.

Spirit has a bad rep among the public for nearly every part of its operation. There is nothing the pilots have done but even though pilots didn't piss off the customer base, they are still part of the company that did, so they will suffer for it just the same.

Spirit isn't growing, that means they are not attractive to banks to loan them money. No loans no growth, no growth, no profitability. Its doesn't matter how greedy you think management is, it doesn't mean a thing. Any increase in overhead will be paid by the customer, not by management. Will the customer who already hates Spirit being willing to pay more for the privilege of being poorly treated?

 

[AirCobra]

In all honesty our schedules are no worse than any other airline schedule...and we have the one diamond in our expired contract the 4 days off between trips.

I guess what I am wondering mostly is why would we agree to that steaming pile of a contract that management is offering? I would certainly be much more happy with no changes to the current contract and keep the 4 days off then get a huge raise and go to 2 days off between trips...my .02.

By your logic above AirCobra SWA is not world class because they don't fly to Canada or Mexico; then Spirit must be a world class operation because we fly to Mexico, South and Central America and most of the Caribbean plus a handful of CONUS cities.

What does it take to have a proven track record?

I was making a lame joke with the world class thing sorry. No offense here but I think Spirit can't even compare to SWA or AirTran. SWA has been going strong for decades, Spirit is usually on the bottom of the list for customer satisfaction. If you really believe Spirit and Southwest are not that different would you turn down an offer to fly for SWA to stay at Spirit?

 

[Mamma]

Nice.

We have one of those things...I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count.

You have a lot of khaki shorts?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I was making a lame joke with the world class thing sorry. No offense here but I think Spirit can't even compare to SWA or AirTran. SWA has been going strong for decades, Spirit is usually on the bottom of the list for customer satisfaction. If you really believe Spirit and Southwest are not that different would you turn down an offer to fly for SWA to stay at Spirit?

Your failure is understanding the concept that some pilots (YIP) feel that they are the buffer zone for poor managment. It is quite simple... if managment fails, they can always come to labor to pay for their own mistakes. Some will gladly play the fool for the tool. Other pilots won't.

The SWA playbook isn't new. If you can't lead, then stand down and let a management team who wants to be leaders take shot a Spirit. There is a difference between 'to manage' and 'to lead'. That is the message to the Spirit BOD.

 

[AirCobra]

Your failure is understanding the concept that some pilots (YIP) feel that they are the buffer zone for poor managment. It is quite simple... if managment fails, they can always come to labor to pay for their own mistakes. Some will gladly play the fool for the tool. Other pilots won't.

The SWA playbook isn't new. If you can't lead, then stand down and let a management team who wants to be leaders take shot a Spirit. There is a difference between 'to manage' and 'to lead'. That is the message to the Spirit BOD.

Your mistake is to blame everything on management. Management doesn't lose luggage and isn't rude to customers. Management does not instill a poor work ethic in ramp service so they don't even try to turn around a flight quickly, even though the future of the company depends on it. Some people just show up to collect a paycheck and you can't with a straight face tell me that unions discourage this type of behavior. Employees need buy-in to the company success, not the success of their collective bargaining unit. Better contracts are temporary and today's good contract is tomorrows bad contract. A growing, stable and profitable company is what gets good pay and good work rules. your union may get you those things for a time, but without a sucessful company, it won't last. Look at Fed Ex, in 2006 when they were profitable Fed Ex was voted best company to work for, in 2009 not profitable, and now Fred Smith is the devil incarnate. When will you grow tired of playing these games? To say that its all managements responsibility will not create more SWA's, it will create more Spirit's and United's.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Your mistake is to blame everything on management.

Once again you need to be told what responsibility means.

Management doesn't lose luggage and isn't rude to customers.

Yes, they do. Yes they are responsible.

Management does not instill a poor work ethic in ramp service so they don't even try to turn around a flight quickly, even though the future of the company depends on it.

Suddenly managment is the victim here. Why does SWA not have this problem. Why do insist on treating other people like trash and when the backlash comes you act surpised and judgemental?

Some people just show up to collect a paycheck and you can't with a straight face tell me that unions discourage this type of behavior.

Yet I am sure you actually believe this drivel you are posting here about management not being responsbile for their own company. Is a commanding officer responsible for his mens morale? The fact that I am actually schooling you on leadership and morale is telling....

Do you believe in civil disobedience? At what point do you stop taking sh!t and pushback? Have you no honor or integrity?

Employees need buy-in to the company success, not the success of their collective bargaining unit.

Who is responible for the buy in?

Better contracts are temporary and today's good contract is tomorrows bad contract. A growing, stable and profitable company is what gets good pay and good work rules.

Who is responsbile for a growing, stable and profitable company??? The union?

your union may get you those things for a time, but without a sucessful company, it won't last. Look at Fed Ex, in 2006 when they were profitable Fed Ex was voted best company to work for, in 2009 not profitable, and now Fred Smith is the devil incarnate.

Negative. the labor contract tells Fred what his cost are. Now his job is to manage those fixed cost over the terms of the contract. Naturally he will try and change it... but guess what... that is the purpose of a contract.

When will you grow tired of playing these games? To say that its all managements responsibility will not create more SWA's, it will create more Spirit's and United's.

What is the difference between SWA labor and Spirits and UALs? You worked for UAL before you cut and ran... What are you saying about the UAL pilots? That Glenn is a good guy and the pilots, who took pay cuts and lost thier pensions to keep the company solvant all while Glenn and Co. took bonuses....... that the pilots are what.... say it....

 

[Mike man]

. Management doesn't lose luggage and isn't rude to customers. Management does not instill a poor work ethic in ramp service so they don't even try to turn around a flight quickly

Yes they do. Spirit management sets the tone, if they want a hostile work environment they decide, if they want all parts of the airline on the same team they decide that too. It is not the pilots who decide what type of ramp worker is hired on. You are starting to sound a little uneducated on this topic, and spare us the "I've been fling since whenever" no one cares.

It is funny how during these negotiation/strike threads you can really see the management want to be types pipe right up with ignorant thoughts on topics they really know little if anything about.

Spirit has 20 firm orders for 320's with options for 30 more...the first one shows up March 5 and starts revenue flights on the 14th.

 

[waveflyer]

Leadership matters.
On all fronts. And employees have every right to do their job for the money- it's called capitalism- and a worker should know their role- if mgmt gives them the contract they are asking for, they deserve pilots who go out and lead for them-
but if they don't...
.... Well you get the union and the employee that you deserve.

I've never had an employee that I couldn't motivate- if you can't do that, maybe running an airline - something very employee intensive- just isn't your gig

good luck spirit- I support you 100%

 

[DonVerita]

When did SWA, JetBlue, Allegiant, AirTran cross the line from fly-by-night low cost airline to world class airline?

I DO NOT MEAN TO OFFEND ANYONE AT SWA, JetBlue, Allegiant, AirTran

That would be when they (AirTran, JetBlue, SWA) became a major airline. World Class...maybe not yet, but definately not fly-by-night.