Something brewing at Luv?

[XR650R]

Picked up some chatter on other boards about the Alaska MEC at SWAPA HQ last week. What's up?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

What do you think? Someone is going to buy AS. If DAL has not already done it, AMR and WN will be fighting for it.

Also maybe WN will code with a Legacy shortly. Lots is going to happen, the first domino has fallen.

 

[wooferdog]

Most interesting. Would make perfect sense, though. ETOPS, a lock on Seattle and the Pacific Northwest, -900s; what's more to want?

Don't Alaska's pax expect a little more than peanuts, though?

 

[kwick]

Good luck with trying that staple.

Has SW learned yet that nobody is going to take those terms?

 

[wooferdog]

Good luck with trying that staple.

Has SW learned yet that nobody is going to take those terms?

Yeah, I think the stapler would not work in this deal.

 

[av8tor76]

What do you think? Someone is going to buy AS. If DAL has not already done it, AMR and WN will be fighting for it.

Also maybe WN will code with a Legacy shortly. Lots is going to happen, the first domino has fallen.

what was the first domino?

 

[boeingdriver213]

Nobody at WN expects to aquire anyone and staple anymore. Wishful thinking for some, but most of us would rather grow and expand without aquiring anyone. I guess there were just enough whiners from the last aquisition that it turned us off to that.

 

[CHQ Pilot]

Also maybe WN will code with a Legacy shortly. Lots is going to happen, the first domino has fallen.

Although not disagreeing with you; I just can't see much hapening with a legacy codeshare. The new CBA prevents any kind of domestic codeshare, any codeshare with regional aircraft (except intra Hawaii and intra Caribbean), and any far international codeshare. The only codeshare allowed is Trans-border (Canada,Mexico, and Caribbean) and cannot exceed more than 4% ASM flown by SWA. The Trans-border segment also has to be from a SWA city in the continental US. I just don't see why a legacy would want to get mixed up with so many restrictions, but never say never...

 

[Fubijaakr]

There's no way anything other than a straight DoH or ratio deal will put an ALK/LUV SLI together. Same equipment, same career expectations, same seniority demographics.

 

[GoodTimes]

Me thinks WN and Alaska would hit some anti-trust snags? Owning the West coast.

 

[Monster Buck]

I think Alaska and Southwest would be a great deal, fingers crossed.

 

[RedDogC130]

funny you mention this...i was talking to someone the other day...nobody important but the AS stuff came out and they were talking about a 5:1 ratio..next thing,what happens to Horizon...they are owned by the holding company right?

 

[RedDogC130]

There's no way anything other than a straight DoH or ratio deal will put an ALK/LUV SLI together. Same equipment, same career expectations, same seniority demographics.

as for same career expectaions...not really....they haved 100+ on furlogh right? their hourly rate is a bit off from ours....how is that the same career expectaion?

 

[Fubijaakr]

The proper mathematical ratio should be 4.07 to one using APC numbers. Horizon and Alaska are separate companies owned by Alaska Air Group. Theoretically, either company could be sold outright leaving the other as a stand-alone entity.

 

[Fubijaakr]

as for same career expectaions...not really....they haved 100+ on furlogh right? their hourly rate is a bit off from ours....how is that the same career expectaion?

Please. Career expectations refer to the equipment you expect to fly at the pinnacle of your career. Pay rates are fluid contract to contract so that certainly doesn't factor in.

Both companies are profitable, so that's a wash.

At this point in time, a pilot at either airline could reasonably expect to end up in the left seat of a 737 flying for a profitable airline. That's as far as Allegheny/Mohawk is going to look.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Although not disagreeing with you; I just can't see much hapening with a legacy codeshare. The new CBA prevents any kind of domestic codeshare, any codeshare with regional aircraft (except intra Hawaii and intra Caribbean), and any far international codeshare. The only codeshare allowed is Trans-border (Canada,Mexico, and Caribbean) and cannot exceed more than 4% ASM flown by SWA. The Trans-border segment also has to be from a SWA city in the continental US. I just don't see why a legacy would want to get mixed up with so many restrictions, but never say never...

Just leaving it open ended. It was a joke that WN buys AS and then codes with DAL. Totally TIC

 

[OK3]

Fubar,

I do not think a staple is appropriate in the case we are talking about.

However I have to call you out on what career expectations mean. If a pilot at brand X may end up on a 747, while a SWA pilot may end up on a 737 does that mean he has a better career expectation? What if the 737 pilot makes 80K more than the 747 pilot. Equipment type makes very little difference in this case, we work for pay. While I realize at most airlines bigger equipment is more pay I think career expectations are a much more complicated thing to define than equipment type. People used this argument to say that if we bought Sun Country those pilots have the same career expectation as SWA pilots because we fly the same equipment. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I see this "logic" on this board a lot and want to point out the problem with it.

Alaska is a much different deal, they really do have a much more comparable career to SWA pilots and I doubt anyone seriously thinks a staple would be appropriate. Not that it really matters, I think this rumor is BS.

 

[Monster Buck]

funny you mention this...i was talking to someone the other day...nobody important but the AS stuff came out and they were talking about a 5:1 ratio..next thing,what happens to Horizon...they are owned by the holding company right?

RAH will buy them.:smash:

 

[RedDogC130]

Please. Career expectations refer to the equipment you expect to fly at the pinnacle of your career. Pay rates are fluid contract to contract so that certainly doesn't factor in.

Both companies are profitable, so that's a wash.

At this point in time, a pilot at either airline could reasonably expect to end up in the left seat of a 737 flying for a profitable airline. That's as far as Allegheny/Mohawk is going to look.

my expectations for my career is to work for an airline that does not code-share my routes to another airline....guess SWA wins again (for now)...I agree that there should be no staple in this instance but SWA people should have a higher ratio of people below us if we are the purchaser.....

 

[Lear70]

RAH will buy them.:smash:

You mean Southwest?

I'm KIDDING... before all the people with their hats on a little too tight flip out.

 

[kwick]

Pay can change overnight. Just look at the UAL pay in 2000.

Career expectations at SW are less at SW than at most airlines. 15-20 years to upgrade according to the computer.

SW may have to give super seniority to FO's at any airline they acquire to account for upgrade expectations.

 

[Mea25000]

LUV is not buying ALK. No one is buying ALK right now. Have you seen where the stock is trading.

 

[Fly4hire]

What do you think? Someone is going to buy AS. If DAL has not already done it, AMR and WN will be fighting for it.

Also maybe WN will code with a Legacy shortly. Lots is going to happen, the first domino has fallen.

I feel sorry the pilots for whatever the legacy is who code share with WN. If it's domestic code share that legacy will be doing less, and if it's international it may grow that side, but require less of the legacies own feed. The only pilots I see benefiting by this are WN.

 

[Noserider76]

I feel sorry the pilots for whatever the legacy is who code share with WN. If it's domestic code share that legacy will be doing less, and if it's international it may grow that side, but require less of the legacies own feed. The only pilots I see benefiting by this are WN.

I don't think you'd see an airline with first class codesharing with SWA. Even the contract regionals are trending toward first class sections.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I don't think you'd see an airline with first class codesharing with SWA. Even the contract regionals are trending toward first class sections.

Hence the TIC part....

 

[RedDogC130]

If it's domestic code share that legacy will be doing less, .

Just to make sure.....SWA's current contract does not allow for domestic code-share...so it is out of the question.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Alaska is a much different deal, they really do have a much more comparable career to SWA pilots and I doubt anyone seriously thinks a staple would be appropriate. Not that it really matters, I think this rumor is BS.

I agree with you on all counts. You make my point very eloquently. Both SWA and ALK are profitable airlines. Equipment matches. Seniority demographics are comparable.

Using a minor difference in pay rates and/or that one carrier has furloughed pilots as examples of enhanced "career expectations" is nothing more than a red herring.

I appreciate Company loyalty, but to automatically assume that EVERYONE aspires to work for your airline is illogical.

BTW, we've been hearing AA/SWA/DAL rumors for 20 years. Hasn't happened yet. Sounds like wishful thinking to me.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I agree that there should be no staple in this instance but SWA people should have a higher ratio of people below us if we are the purchaser.....

Why is that? So you can grab seniority you haven't earned? Who says it will be a purchase and not a merger? Do you deserve unearned seniority in a straight merger?

Or does the simple fact that name of the merged airline alone entitles you to some sort of improved bidding position?

Straight DoH would fix that.

 

[bravodude]

Pay can change overnight. Just look at the UAL pay in 2000.

Career expectations at SW are less at SW than at most airlines. 15-20 years to upgrade according to the computer.

SW may have to give super seniority to FO's at any airline they acquire to account for upgrade expectations.[/QUOTEat SWA]


Its a fifteen year upgrade with 3 year fo's pulling down 140,000 a year.
I guess you are correct it sucks beeing an fo at SWA looking at a twenty year upgrade...whatever will I do.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Pay can change overnight. Just look at the UAL pay in 2000.

Career expectations at SW are less at SW than at most airlines. 15-20 years to upgrade according to the computer.

SW may have to give super seniority to FO's at any airline they acquire to account for upgrade expectations.[/QUOTEat SWA]


Its a fifteen year upgrade with 3 year fo's pulling down 140,000 a year.
I guess you are correct it sucks beeing an fo at SWA looking at a twenty year upgrade...whatever will I do.

You are naive to think SWA can't become one of the worst airlines to work for in a few years.