Mesa files ch11 bankruptcy

[Fltlvls]

Let me guess you work for Mesa? Really how do you think Mesa will get revenue? EVEN if they are able to clear ALL OF THEIR DEBTS, how will they make any money? Do you really think united or delta will take them back? comparing DELTA, United or any major airline chp 11 is WAY different then having a regional declare chp 11.. Look what happened to independence/ACA..

They have to show that they can make money and return to profitability, but they have no real means insight to do that... Especially when their source of revenue (major airlines) want to get rid of them for various reasons.

I mean how many of your competitors (ie Skywest, Eagle, Expressjet, etc) want to even buy your aircraft when you cant really seem to keep them up to standards to begin with. Its not like those of us from other airlines are making up claims about MESA, most comes from those THAT USED TO WORK AT MESA. Personally I dont think chp 11 can save a rotting product that is run by a crook, that has shown time and time again what they will do to their internal books in pervious court battles. Maybe they will find out that all their financial info is infested with viruses from the accountants searching for porn during day to day ops.

Ex-Mesa..Since you can't read my post. How did you get all of your questions out of one sentence I posted, which is what you fall under also.I don't know what Mesa will do ,can do, can't do, has done. All I am saying is that all the "experts" here on FI think they have Mesa's financial situation figured out for them.If that's the case, send JO an email telling him you know everything about their finances, since everyone here seems to be privy to that information. :laugh:

 

[Golden Falcon]

Let me guess you work for Mesa? Really how do you think Mesa will get revenue? EVEN if they are able to clear ALL OF THEIR DEBTS, how will they make any money? Do you really think united or delta will take them back? comparing DELTA, United or any major airline chp 11 is WAY different then having a regional declare chp 11.. Look what happened to independence/ACA..

They have to show that they can make money and return to profitability, but they have no real means insight to do that... Especially when their source of revenue (major airlines) want to get rid of them for various reasons.

I mean how many of your competitors (ie Skywest, Eagle, Expressjet, etc) want to even buy your aircraft when you cant really seem to keep them up to standards to begin with. Its not like those of us from other airlines are making up claims about MESA, most comes from those THAT USED TO WORK AT MESA. Personally I dont think chp 11 can save a rotting product that is run by a crook, that has shown time and time again what they will do to their internal books in pervious court battles. Maybe they will find out that all their financial info is infested with viruses from the accountants searching for porn during day to day ops.

Of course they will take them back, if they are CHEAP enough

 

[WayBack]

I love you morons who think Mesa will tank.
Even if Mesa did tank, which they won't, then you have scum like RAH pilots and now taking it up the rear, Comair pilots.

EDIT: I forgot to mention...You also have ALPA that loves to agree on pay cuts, then comes out with the scripted "We were backed into a corner" or "Our situation is different, we had to do it!" or my favorite..."Live to fight another day!!"

 

[Regul8r]

..."Live to fight another day!!"

Yes...that sounds like a wonderful plan. Now lets go ask the pilots at Midwest Airlines, Aloha, ATA, Champion, etc., how that worked out for them? I bet those guys wish they were a little more aggressive in negotiations. Alas, they were led astray by a castrated union with its own interests in mind.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yes...that sounds like a wonderful plan. Now lets go ask the pilots at Midwest Airlines, Aloha, ATA, Champion, etc., how that worked out for them? I bet those guys wish they were a little more aggressive in negotiations. Alas, they were led astray by a castrated union with its own interests in mind.

The only way to take away the "live to fight another day" issue is to allow transportability of longevity and seniority....If you don't do that, you will never get rid of that issue.....

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

The only way to take away the "live to fight another day" issue is to allow transportability of longevity and seniority....If you don't do that, you will never get rid of that issue.....

Great idea. Totally impractical in getting started. Everyone would never agree on an integration solution.

 

[brokedash]

Then why haven't they pulled them out of the desert to replace Comairs 50 seaters?..7 days is a long time when there are what..60-100 flighta a day that Freedom operates.What would DL do with that many pax everyday for 7 days or longer?..If you are confident they could do it , I would say start getting them warmed up then.

It wouldn't be that hard considering DL wants to reduce 50 seat lift and has F8 concentrated at the hub that is the weakest link in there system.

 

[DASHDRIVER]

I think its fairly obvious to anyone that has been in this industry for the last five years to see what will will happen.

1. Any Airline given the option to reduce their exposure to 50 seat rj's will do just that. UAL, US, Delta has more than enough 50 seaters being used by their other partners to cover there needs. They have all stated that there goal is to reduce this flying as contracts come due.

2. Mesa will not go away completely. Although I find it likely that they will lose most of whats left of there 50 seaters; there is still value is the 70-90 seat flying they do. Especially if they get the pilots and working groups to role over again. (Which they will because they are all cowardly pieces of dung) This is where the danger to the rest of us lies. I have personally lost 2 positions and have had several contract setbacks directly attributed to what Mesa has done in the last 10 years. I have no doubt this will be the core of the plan moving forward. Reshape and drop as much Debt as possible, drop 50 seaters, position to get more 90 seat flying down the road. Now if they can only get their debtors to agree to the plan.

3. If Mesa survives this it will be very hard for the rest of us to make any contract improvments over the next 5-7 years. Especially those of us under heavy 50 seat jet fleets. In a best case situation Mesa would fail utterly and like fleeted companies will buy the left overs. Maybe this is the bright spot. If Comair, Mesaba, Air Wisconsin or some other good company gets and opportunity to buy whats left it would be a boost to our sector of the industry and give us an chance to build back some of what we have all lost at the hands of JO and his pilot group.

Regards DD

 

[DASHDRIVER]

On a more personnel note. You won't see me wishing any sympathy on Mesa or their crews. They made the bed they rest in. They did not offer any backbone, or sympathy at any opportunity they have been given over there last ten years of existence. They have taken jobs, bases and pay form almost all of us on this level of the industry. We have all suffered because of their greed, short sightedness and fear. I do not accept any of their pilots groups of excuses as to why they were forced to do what they have agreed to over the years. Karma's a bitch and every one of them has a lot coming.

 

[topdawg]

Yes...that sounds like a wonderful plan. Now lets go ask the pilots at Midwest Airlines, Aloha, ATA, Champion, etc., how that worked out for them? I bet those guys wish they were a little more aggressive in negotiations. Alas, they were led astray by a castrated union with its own interests in mind.

Couldn't agree more! ALPA is a fcking joke!

 

[rene]

Mesa among the best - get your facts right

On a more personnel note. You won't see me wishing any sympathy on Mesa or their crews. They made the bed they rest in. They did not offer any backbone, or sympathy at any opportunity they have been given over there last ten years of existence. They have taken jobs, bases and pay form almost all of us on this level of the industry. We have all suffered because of their greed, short sightedness and fear. I do not accept any of their pilots groups of excuses as to why they were forced to do what they have agreed to over the years. Karma's a bitch and every one of them has a lot coming.

Hey Dash, pssssst. You are full of BS. Where do I start?

First of all, please take a look at Mesa's pilot contract? http://www.mesapilots.com/ How is it inferior to any of the quality airlines you reference? As a quick test, look at the BK records and divide pilot pay by the number of pilots. Compare this number with the rest of the industry. Hint; Mesa is on the high side of the analysis. Also, while there is talk of Management cancelling PBS and removing some of the benefits, this hasn't happened yet and it isn't likely to happen. I have seen several letters from Management to the MAG - MEC and it is clear that there is a sincere interest by both parties in resolving the disputes underlying this issue.

While it may be sporty to come on here with an anonymous screen name and make up BS intended to bash Mesa, there are simply no facts to support these allegations.

Here are some publicly disclosed facts for you all to consider.

• Mesa is the number one operator in the Delta system based on CCF, TCF, and A-14. This has been true for the last six consecutive months. They also have the best inflight performance of any regional based on Delta's own data - (see court records).
• Mesa is the number one operator in the US Airways system based on the same metrics. They have held this position for more than three years.
• In the UAL system Mesa, in spite of a 5% point disadvantage basd on its city pair schedule (flying into the ATC and weather challenged Northeast cities) improved its D-0 performance by 15% pts year over year. Overall CCF at United is a very competitive 99.1% for the ful year 2009.

So in fact, contrary to common concensus, Mesa is among the BEST operators in the industry. Oh those pesky facts keep getting in the way of your perceived reality. I hate it when that happens. Here are a few more facts for you to consider.

• Delta wanted to agressively reduce capacity when fuel peaked and (per the judge - acted in "BAD FAITH" cancelling the Freedom contract.) This will cost them in the BK.
• United didn't renew with Mesa because Sky West put up $118 million and Express Jet gave them 40% of the company. These decision had nothing at all to do with Mesa's performance. Both Sky West and Express Jet acted out of desperation because Mesa's lessors were about to cave on rents. This is an an indication of bad things to come at other "Quality Regional Airlines".
• Bottom line - There are simply too many 50 seat jets in the market place and their corresponding leases and contracts our not in synch. This is the only reason for the Mesa BK and will be the reason for future regional bankruptcies. You can be certain that Mesa will simply reject the excess leases and come out even stronger and even more competitive than it is today.

I am stunned that you folks cannot see how self defeating this type of behavior is. On behalf of the 3,400 people who work hard every day at Mesa trying to earn a living in this crappy industry, I suggest that you back off and take a look in the mirror.

You are looking at your future - enjoy the view.

 

[BHopper88]

[*]United didn't renew with Mesa because Sky West put up $118 million and Express Jet gave them 40% of the company. These decision had nothing at all to do with Mesa's performance. Both Sky West and Express Jet acted out of desperation because Mesa's lessors were about to cave on rents. This is an an indication of bad things to come at other "Quality Regional Airlines".
[*]Bottom line - There are simply too many 50 seat jets in the market place and their corresponding leases and contracts our not in synch. This is the only reason for the Mesa BK and will be the reason for future regional bankruptcies. You can be certain that Mesa will simply reject the excess leases and come out even stronger and even more competitive than it is today.

Ok you are dreaming that you think the ONLY reason United didnt renew with Mesa is because SkyWest deferred payments from United and then loaned them money, and ExpressJet giving out stock for flying.


How many flights does Mesa operate on a daily basis for United? Delta? Want to compare stats vs SkyWest? What about AWAC on the USAirways side?

Again you ARE SO CERTAIN that Mesa can and will just dump all the excess leases and everything will be beautiful. GIVE ME A BREAK....

HOW IS MESA GOING TO MAKE MONEY AFTER Bankruptcy when EVERY carrier they have contracts with is actively and PUBLICLY STATED they dont like the performance that MESA brings to the table and wants to cut or dump completely the services that Mesa has with them. Dont think it has anything to do with ExpressJet is "Cheaper" then Mesa.

I would ask you, If Expressjet, SkyWest, Air Wisconsin or the various other carriers were hiring, WOULD YOU LEAVE and Mesa being in bankruptcy and the current condition it is in.

 

[CLARKGRSWOLD]

I love how everyone loves to BASH MESA.

AWAC gave Airways what 80 million just to get the flying
SKYWEST gave UAL 80 million to get the flying

You all don't see that the future is not with 50 seaters. Your companies are giving the legacy carriers millions of dollars just to secure flying for the short term. That does not bode well for you all come contract time when your airline has pissed all the money away.

All mesa is doing is getting ahead of the curve. They will shed the 50 seat jets. More than likey, secure more 700 and 900 flying.

Hey SKYWEST let me know how those 175 crj 200's are looking in a few years, and your MGMT has given all "your cash away to UAL to fly those ********************ty 200's


Also I little side not~

Mesa scope clause clearly states, the planes and the pilots are a joint deal if a buyout should occur.

A merger is the only option, you cannot staple the Mesa group to the bottom. 300 of the mesa pilots, have been with the company for 10 years or more.

Also~ If the company goes tits up, All the other ALPA carries will give pref hiring to other out of work ALPA pilots. Might not be a bad deal for those guys after all

 

[BHopper88]

You actually think that another airline would want to merge with the poison that is Mesa...?

What is to stop the bankruptcy judge to say they have to sell their yet to be delivered CRJ700s they are trying to use for united.

Yea the market and the means to use CRJ200s hurts profits with oil being so high, yet SkyWest has used the pro-rated routes with the CRJ200 and has been leasing more on the short term to make money in this market. So far its worked.

Its all about your management group being smart and its return on investment. If you think about it, expressjet gave up stock to united for a short term contract. If it works out, it work out for BOTH PARTIES. What does Mesa have to offer?

When you think of regionals management, what do you think of when you think of:
-Mesa
-Skywest
-Air Wisconsin
-ExpressJet

HMMMM ONE OF THESE JUST DOESNT BELONG...
Can use the same for current stock price...

yea I am bashing mesa but you act like even mesa pilots (ex or current) dont bash the company too.....

Yet its not like we hate mesa pilots... we will give you a ride in the jumpseat any time. Its like the same thing where expressjet guys had words for skywest last year, they didnt bring hate on pilots, just the company for the most part. Yea things get heated, but you take the bashing on Mesa so personal when I can only IMAGINE how much hate you spread about your own company during cruise.

 

[pilot22]

MESA pilots have been fcking this industry for long enough! Payback is going to be sweet!

Let's be very clear about this since you know everything. The Mesa pilots are not doing this, their MEC and ALPA is. Word on the street is that ALPA by be voted out and another screw you union comes in. Obviously, you need more education.