Mesa files ch11 bankruptcy

[brokedash]

WRONG......

30 700s FOR ual

38 900s with another possibility of 37 more

and we do not know where GO Airlines will take them

if they come out of bk

We know YV still has 20 700s under contract for UA, wether they get more or not depends on how desperate UA becomes for 70 seat feed, mind you YV may not stand a chance with the ongoing litigation over 700s.

Before learning of the US scope issues, I would have said that down the road YV might have a shot at more 900s, but with US also in financially bad shape and labor issues they might actually reduce 900s to appease labor concerns.

Go! won't go to far as long as there intra island only. If the ever land a codshare from the mainland or international destinations, they might have reason to get larger planes, but I don't see the fleet numbers themselves changing.

 

[Fltlvls]

UAL will pull them out with SKYW picking up whats left, USAIR will pull as many 900 out of service to reduce the airframes over 70 seat to comply with the agreement they signed with the pilot group.

Really, Go? You have like 3 aircraft out there and RAH couldn't make a profit running 70 seaters out there.

Mesa's done.

So tell us Mr.Aviation Expert...Has any of this been announced in a press release?

You sound like the national news in hopes of being the first to announce a breaking news story.Let's just sit back and watch what happens,or is that too difficult to do?

 

[Fltlvls]

We know YV still has 20 700s under contract for UA, wether they get more or not depends on how desperate UA becomes for 70 seat feed, mind you YV may not stand a chance with the ongoing litigation over 700s.

Before learning of the US scope issues, I would have said that down the road YV might have a shot at more 900s, but with US also in financially bad shape and labor issues they might actually reduce 900s to appease labor concerns.

Go! won't go to far as long as there intra island only. If the ever land a codshare from the mainland or international destinations, they might have reason to get larger planes, but I don't see the fleet numbers themselves changing.

I think it will depend on how desperate UA and US are for cash and who will take the carrot dangling in front of them in hopes of gaining a contract with either one.Just like Skywest and ExpressJet did.

Do you seriously think that either UA or US cares who flys for them?
The newbies starting to fly for UA proves my point.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Yessssss Post #154....................................Mesa sucks

 

[COOPERVANE]

Yessssss Post #154....................................Mesa sucks

 

[Fltlvls]

yessssss post #154....................................mesa sucks

congrats!!!...:d

 

[brokedash]

I think it will depend on how desperate UA and US are for cash and who will take the carrot dangling in front of them in hopes of gaining a contract with either one.Just like Skywest and ExpressJet did.

Do you seriously think that either UA or US cares who flys for them?
The newbies starting to fly for UA proves my point.

Oh, I'm sure they care. After all they seem to like the ones with 'deep' pockets that can pay to play. EX: ZW,RAH secured service with US by helping them finance the merger and OO gave UA around 80 mil. Now wether they care about the service being provided on those code share flights is another question entirely.

 

[BHopper88]

The only newbie is expressjet and really you have to look at a possible co/ua deal with expressjet getting their foot in the door. Skywest defered the payment they were due from ual, loaned them 80 plus million for secured flying/extending a contract for like 20 ac if I remember right. Besides skywest operates at times more daily flights than ual in their system. Now asa joins the fun too. Will be interesting to see if performance goes up in Dulles. Keep drinking that Mesa koolaid....oh yeah!

 

[B.T.Justice]

The newbies starting to fly for UA proves my point.

Like Mesa is suck a senior UAX carrier.....going on 6 years. You were able to come in with rock bottom rates and force AWAC and ACA out, but in the end it looks like UAL got what it paid for.

 

[B.T.Justice]

I love how everyone loves to BASH MESA.

AWAC gave Airways what 80 million just to get the flying
SKYWEST gave UAL 80 million to get the flying

Looks like you and Rene have short term memories...I wonder who started this pay to play stuff....I think it started in 2003 by, gosh I can't remember the name of that airline... oh ya, MESA Air.

From the Mesa bankruptcy docket page 12 item 35 -

The United Agreement was for 30 fifty seat aircraft with an expiration in April 2010, had reduced margins and included a $30 million payment by Mesa to United Airlines. The Delta Agreement was for 30 aircraft through November 2012 with an option to remove 8 aircraft by May 2009. Additionally, Mesa agreed to reimburse Delta for lease obligations on 30 Fairchild Dornier aircraft.

In case you forgot so quickly the Skywest money to UAL is not a "payment" but an 80 million dollar loan, with a very attractive interest rate.

Hey Rene - I hate it too when pesky facts get in the way of percieved reality....Lets not forget who started pay to play.

 

[rogerwilcoout]

Time to buy XJT stock...Express Jet will fill the void with a better product...

lol dummy xjet UNDERBID the current codeshares like mesa and republic for united flying. They are THE new low.

 

[Tarzan]

lol dummy xjet UNDERBID the current codeshares like mesa and republic for united flying. They are THE new low.

Who do you work for? Chances are, their contract is better than yours.

 

[Popeye0537]

Who do you work for? Chances are, their contract is better than yours.

How long can they maintain that wonderful contract operating at a loss?

And Fltlvls, your career at Mesa is over, you should have got out when you could have.

 

[jet pipe ovht]

OO's 80 million was at 11% interest, secured with gates and equipment. It also secured there flying. You can't get a better investment then that, I wish I had some money to loan United. You can say its pay to play, but to me that just sounds like some dang good business.

 

[hou757]

How long can they maintain that wonderful contract operating at a loss?

And Fltlvls, your career at Mesa is over, you should have got out when you could have.

Get the facts right. They are not operating it at a loss!!

 

[Full of LUV]

Good Business.....

OO's 80 million was at 11% interest, secured with gates and equipment. It also secured there flying. You can't get a better investment then that, I wish I had some money to loan United. You can say its pay to play, but to me that just sounds like some dang good business.

Doesn't the pimp always give away the first hits of smack to the ho's for free???????

 

[olympus593]

How long can they maintain that wonderful contract operating at a loss?

And Fltlvls, your career at Mesa is over, you should have got out when you could have.

And Popeye, your career at RAH (hopefully) is over soon, you should have got out when you could have

 

[sniper]

We know YV still has 20 700s under contract for UA, wether they get more or not depends on how desperate UA becomes for 70 seat feed, mind you YV may not stand a chance with the ongoing litigation over 700s.


If Mesa puts those 10 frames by april, there is no litigation.
Contract was signed 4 years ago.



Before learning of the US scope issues, I would have said that down the road YV might have a shot at more 900s, but with US also in financially bad shape and labor issues they might actually reduce 900s to appease labor concerns.

If Usair was to reduce the liabilities on their books, Mesa will not only keep, but will get more planes...


Go! won't go to far as long as there intra island only. If the ever land a codshare from the mainland or international destinations, they might have reason to get larger planes, but I don't see the fleet numbers themselves changing.


Take a look at the Hawaian Airlines scope relief recent TA.
And no more jets for GO

 

[rene]

Missed the point

Looks like you and Rene have short term memories...I wonder who started this pay to play stuff....I think it started in 2003 by, gosh I can't remember the name of that airline... oh ya, MESA Air.

From the Mesa bankruptcy docket page 12 item 35 -

The United Agreement was for 30 fifty seat aircraft with an expiration in April 2010, had reduced margins and included a $30 million payment by Mesa to United Airlines. The Delta Agreement was for 30 aircraft through November 2012 with an option to remove 8 aircraft by May 2009. Additionally, Mesa agreed to reimburse Delta for lease obligations on 30 Fairchild Dornier aircraft.

In case you forgot so quickly the Skywest money to UAL is not a "payment" but an 80 million dollar loan, with a very attractive interest rate.

Hey Rene - I hate it too when pesky facts get in the way of percieved reality....Lets not forget who started pay to play.

I Think you missed my point. It doesn't matter who started the pay to play nonsense. My point was Mesa lost the united business because of the financial arrangements Sky West and Express Jet were able to offer. They did not lose it based on operating performance......

For the record I believe "Pay to Play" is a doomed strategy even if it is a secured loan.

 

[Fltlvls]

How long can they maintain that wonderful contract operating at a loss?

And Fltlvls, your career at Mesa is over, you should have got out when you could have.

You are correct, my career is over at Mesa because I already got out.
Any other questions?

 

[brokedash]

We know YV still has 20 700s under contract for UA, wether they get more or not depends on how desperate UA becomes for 70 seat feed, mind you YV may not stand a chance with the ongoing litigation over 700s.


If Mesa puts those 10 frames by april, there is no litigation.
Contract was signed 4 years ago.



Before learning of the US scope issues, I would have said that down the road YV might have a shot at more 900s, but with US also in financially bad shape and labor issues they might actually reduce 900s to appease labor concerns.

If Usair was to reduce the liabilities on their books, Mesa will not only keep, but will get more planes...


Go! won't go to far as long as there intra island only. If the ever land a codshare from the mainland or international destinations, they might have reason to get larger planes, but I don't see the fleet numbers themselves changing.


Take a look at the Hawaian Airlines scope relief recent TA.
And no more jets for GO

Last I saw Mesa sent a last second letter to UA stating a 30APR delivery date, then that was re-tracted and restated. However the 10 frames Bombardier allegedly has production orders for will not show up until 2013.

I haven't had much luck in locating the HA TA, could you specify the deets?

 

[DX Rick]

H
Here are some publicly disclosed facts for you all to consider.

• Mesa is the number one operator in the Delta system based on CCF, TCF, and A-14. This has been true for the last six consecutive months. They also have the best inflight performance of any regional based on Delta's own data - (see court records).

• 
  
  What are you smoking? Let's see, Mesa doesn't handle the baggage, it's DGS or REAS. We all know anyone employed by Mesa isn't qualified to handle their own sack, let alone someone else's luggage.
  A-14? I bet those 30-45 minute turns at CVG are real hard. Even when you do push 45 minutes late, you're always on time. Like Lindsay said

  Give me a break. Get ACARS and then we will see how well you do.

 

[paddlehigh]

US AIR needs to reduce capacity and the word on the street is they may accomplish this by voiding mesa's contract.

 

[Fltlvls]

US AIR needs to reduce capacity and the word on the street is they may accomplish this by voiding mesa's contract.

Source?....

 

[jonjuan]

Source?....

"The street." Can't you read?

 

[Fltlvls]

"The street." Can't you read?

Guess I can't ...Keep forgetting that is always the official source.

 

[Nevets]

The only way to take away the "live to fight another day" issue is to allow transportability of longevity and seniority....If you don't do that, you will never get rid of that issue.....

And that is exactly what the ALPA Fee For Departure Task Force is trying to do!

Great idea. Totally impractical in getting started. Everyone would never agree on an integration solution.

The integration solution does not have to be agreed upon ahead of time. The only thing that is required is an agreement written in the contracts that if planes are transferred between corporate lines, pilots are transferred as well. There is already a real life example of this in ASA's contract!

• United didn't renew with Mesa because Sky West put up $118 million and Express Jet gave them 40% of the company. These decision had nothing at all to do with Mesa's performance. Both Sky West and Express Jet acted out of desperation because Mesa's lessors were about to cave on rents. This is an an indication of bad things to come at other "Quality Regional Airlines".

ExpressJet included a grant to United of 2.7 million common stock warrants UAL at $2 per share. ExpressJet currently has about 15.65 million shares outstanding. If UAL exercised all of its warrants, it would have less than 15% ownership in XJT.

Mesa scope clause clearly states, the planes and the pilots are a joint deal if a buyout should occur.

A merger is the only option, you cannot staple the Mesa group to the bottom. 300 of the mesa pilots, have been with the company for 10 years or more.

Also~ If the company goes tits up, All the other ALPA carries will give pref hiring to other out of work ALPA pilots. Might not be a bad deal for those guys after all

Sounds like the same type of language XJT has in its pilot's contract.

But then again my airline (SkyWest) has a ton of money in the bank, is very good with its money and investments, even thou I might not agree with all my management decisions.

SWA has a ton of money in the bank, is very good with its money and investments as well and they are the best compensated pilots in their industry!

We are all professionals and do the best we can. Its about what we do for each other. If everyone lifts and stands together we don't move backward. If one group lays down and dies we get dragged back with them.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

lol dummy xjet UNDERBID the current codeshares like mesa and republic for united flying. They are THE new low.

And yet XJT provides a good product to its customer and has a pilot contract that is at the top of the industry!

How long can they maintain that wonderful contract operating at a loss?

Can you point to a source that the UAL flying is being done at a loss?

 

[sniper]

Last I saw Mesa sent a last second letter to UA stating a 30APR delivery date, then that was re-tracted and restated. However the 10 frames Bombardier allegedly has production orders for will not show up until 2013.

I haven't had much luck in locating the HA TA, could you specify the deets?

700's will be used airframes coming from another regional

 

[sniper]

US AIR needs to reduce capacity and the word on the street is they may accomplish this by voiding mesa's contract.

US AIR can not afford to lease another A330 therefore lost the China route awarded by the DOT.

US AIR can not lease another A330 therefore stops for gas with the 767 on the CLT to HNL

They will reduce indeed,

Guess what? their liabilities in order to get couple A330's

Their own RJ liabilities, starting with the E-190's and then guess what else since mainline scope says " mainline frames are secured"
who has 700's that mainline paid for?



That is reality.

 

[Popeye0537]

And Popeye, your career at RAH (hopefully) is over soon, you should have got out when you could have

I guess it would have been a much better choice to come to Piedmont and still be sitting in the right seat like you.

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha, don't worry if RAH fails I will still be able to go places you can't, Flap Operator