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FAA won't back training requirements

  • Thread starter Thread starter UALRATT
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UALRATT

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http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/889570.html

FAA won't back training requirements pushed by Flight 3407 families

By Jerry Zremski
NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF
Updated: December 11, 2009, 12:28 AM / 13 comments


WASHINGTON — The head of the Federal Aviation Administration on Thursday signaled that the agency will not back the Families of Continental Flight 3407 in their call for a dramatic increase in pilot experience requirements in wake of the crash that claimed the lives of 50 in Clarence in February.In written testimony to be delivered at a Senate Commerce Commitee hearing Thursday, FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt said the agency is rewriting a proposal that it released earlier this year, which would have boosted the number of flight hours new pilots must have.
"The final rule will be consistent with the philosophy of enhancing the quality and effectiveness of training rather than focusing on traditional quantitative measures such as total flight time," Babbitt said in the testimony.
The Flight 3407 families, who have been pushing for legislation requiring that new pilots have 1,500 flight hours before they can fly passengers, obtained a copy of the written testimony and were livid at what they saw.
"Once again, it looks like corporate lobbying dollars are going to win out over the average citizens," said Scott Maurer, who lost his daughter, Lorin, in the crash.
Maurer noted that the aviation industry has been lobbying strongly against the proposed increase in pilot training.
Babbitt argued that basing training requirements merely on the basis of flight hours was not the best way to guarantee that pilots are adequately trained.
He said the FAA is looking at ways to make sure pilots receive specialized training in exposure to icing, multiple-pilot operations and other facets of commercial aviation.
"We view this option as being more targeted than merely increasing the number of total flight hours required, because it will be obvious to the carrier what skills an individual pilot has, rather than relying on an assumption that a certain number of hours has resulted in a comprehensive set of skills," Babbitt said.
That argument didn't wash with the Flight 3407 families.
Susan Bourque, who lost her sister, Beverly Eckert, in the crash, said Babbitt's proposal to rewrite the rules sounded as if it could take six to eight years to complete.
"How many crashes for the regional airlines is it going to take before our government does something?" Bourque said. "Evidently, six in a row is not enough."
About 35 members of the families group, most clad in red, gathered Thursday morning for the Senate hearing.
Sen. Byron L. Dorgan, the North Dakota Democrat who chairs the Senate Aviation Subcommittee, praised the families for pushing the FAA and lawmakers to make changes to improve aviation safety.
"I'm convinced that their relentless actions ... will end up saving lives," Dorgan said.
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Babbitt is an ALPA bread. Babbitt who led ALPA has invoked policies that replaced experienced pilots with pilots straight out of pilot factories. The 1500 hrs. would do wonders for this profession. Supply and demand would be cutoff and wages would go up.
Pretty simple.

WASHINGTON -- The president of the world's largest pilots union today heralded the Obama administration's nomination of Capt. J. Randolph Babbitt as the next FAA Administrator, calling him "a powerful leader who promises to direct the FAA with staunch determination and a deep understanding of the aviation industry."
"I speak for ALPA's more than 52,000 airline pilots in welcoming this news as critical progress to ensure that the U.S. air transportation system sets the world standard for safety and efficiency now and in the future," said Capt. John Prater, ALPA's ...

Babbitt=another ALPA sellout​


M
 
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Babbitt is an ALPA bread. Babbitt who led ALPA has invoked policies that replaced experienced pilots with pilots straight out of pilot factories. The 1500 hrs. would do wonders for this profession. Supply and demand would be cutoff and wages would go up.
Pretty simple.

WASHINGTON -- The president of the world's largest pilots union today heralded the Obama administration's nomination of Capt. J. Randolph Babbitt as the next FAA Administrator, calling him "a powerful leader who promises to direct the FAA with staunch determination and a deep understanding of the aviation industry."
"I speak for ALPA's more than 52,000 airline pilots in welcoming this news as critical progress to ensure that the U.S. air transportation system sets the world standard for safety and efficiency now and in the future," said Capt. John Prater, ALPA's ...

Babbitt=another ALPA sellout​


M

It would also help if people would stop paying for jobs at places like GIA.
 
How about hold the FAA accountable for their responsibility and authority to regulate and license airmen and airlines? If a fed signed your ATP or CPL and then they sign off on the training programs and oversight of same, then they should be the ones answering questions when a flaw is found either in the system or the pilot it produces.
 
I seem to remember that both crew members of the Buffalo crash had more than 1500 hours. Tell me how this change in rules would have saved any lives on that flight. The problem seems more related to the fact that Colgon's training was (is?) CRAP. I seem to recall the among other things, the Captain had never been trained on what the stick shaker felt like. WTF?
 
I seem to remember that both crew members of the Buffalo crash had more than 1500 hours. Tell me how this change in rules would have saved any lives on that flight. The problem seems more related to the fact that Colgon's training was (is?) CRAP. I seem to recall the among other things, the Captain had never been trained on what the stick shaker felt like. WTF?[/QUOTE

the capt got hired with 600 hrs


Get it
M
 
How about hold the FAA accountable for their responsibility and authority to regulate and license airmen and airlines?
If a fed signed your ATP or CPL and then they sign off on the training programs and oversight of same, then they should be the ones answering questions when a flaw is found either in the system or the pilot it produces.

I agree.
It is pretty sad when the race to the bottom has to be stopped by blood of innocent passengers.
 
"Babbitt argued that basing training requirements merely on the basis of flight hours was not the best way to guarantee that pilots are adequately trained.
He said the FAA is looking at ways to make sure pilots receive specialized training in exposure to icing, multiple-pilot operations and other facets of commercial aviation."


Once again we see that the FAA and others fail to distinguish between two very important facets of this job: One is training/education, and the other is EXPERIENCE!!!

YOU CANNOT TEACH EXPERIENCE!!!!

Only EXPERIENCE will give you EXPERIENCE. And at 1500 hours, you are just beginning to understand your EXPERIENCES as a pilot.

I dare say that NO highly and well TRAINED 250 hour pilot has:
* flown an approach to minimums in hard IFR,
* gone missed against their will,
* diverted,
* carried so much ice that they ran out of elevator trim,
* picked their way through a line of steady state thunderstorms,
* gotten their a$$ kicked by a line of steady state thundersorms,
* landed on snow and ice,
* dealt with low level windshear, wake turbulance, or mountain waves, and the joys of virga,
* "made it stick" in a howling winter crosswind, in the middle of the night, at some uncontrolled field in Nowhere, Indiana,
* learned how and when to make a controller your friend,
* pissed off a ground contoller at JFK, ORD, IAD, IAH, or ATL,

These, and many other things cannot be TAUGHT. A pilot must EXPERIENCE these things to fully understand and appreciate them.
 
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When i flew with these 300 hr wonder kids, they didn't know they were getting themselves in trouble. Now that was scary.I can't count how many times i said "I have the controls".
 
"Babbitt argued that basing training requirements merely on the basis of flight hours was not the best way to guarantee that pilots are adequately trained.
He said the FAA is looking at ways to make sure pilots receive specialized training in exposure to icing, multiple-pilot operations and other facets of commercial aviation."


Once again we see that the FAA and others fail to distinguish between two very important facets of this job: One is training/education, and the other is EXPERIENCE!!!

YOU CANNOT TEACH EXPERIENCE!!!!

Only EXPERIENCE will give you EXPERIENCE. And at 1500 hours, you are just beginning to understand your EXPERIENCES as a pilot.

I dare say that NO highly and well TRAINED 250 hour pilot has:
* flown an approach to minimums in hard IFR,
* gone missed against their will,
* diverted,
* carried so much ice that they ran out of elevator trim,
* picked their way through a line of steady state thunderstorms,
* gotten their a$$ kicked by a line of steady state thundersorms,
* landed on snow and ice,
* dealt with low level windshear, wake turbulance, or mountain waves, and the joys of virga,
* "made it stick" in a howling winter crosswind, in the middle of the night, at some uncontrolled field in Nowhere, Indiana,
* learned how and when to make a controller your friend,
* pissed off a ground contoller at JFK, ORD, IAD, IAH, or ATL,

These, and many other things cannot be TAUGHT. A pilot must EXPERIENCE these things to fully understand and appreciate them.

And you're not going to get that at college and you're not going to get that flight instructing.

That leaves us with military, Part 135, and corporate. But are there enough of these jobs to create enough of your "experienced" pilots for the airlines?
 
I seem to remember that both crew members of the Buffalo crash had more than 1500 hours. Tell me how this change in rules would have saved any lives on that flight. The problem seems more related to the fact that Colgon's training was (is?) CRAP. I seem to recall the among other things, the Captain had never been trained on what the stick shaker felt like. WTF?[/QUOTE

the capt got hired with 600 hrs


Get it
M

How many hours did he have when he crashed? Probably more than 600, smart guy. Get it yourself.
 

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