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More cuts coming at Netjets????

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Heavy Set

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2002
Posts
2,277
Interesting read from this website. Seems kinda harsh on the possible cuts the analyst suggests.



The Fractional Market: Business Jet Traveler Online

Here is a snippet of the actual article:


In the case of NetJets, some of its problems can be linked to the fact that it “has tried to be all things to all people,” Riegel said. The company’s Marquis jet card program and the need to buy charter to fulfill fractional flight requests layered in additional costs, he noted, “and it’s not surprising they dived into the red. The only way to dig out is to try to make money by selling shares.” But for many fractional providers, share sales are virtually nonexistent.

Although NetJets’ Marquis jet card sales offset some of the shareowner departures, “card activity creates as many problems as it solves,” Riegel said. In the fractional industry, he explained, there is an average of nine to 10 owners per airplane, and each of those owners places demand on each airplane. Marquis jet card buyers, however, average about 20 per airplane. “The more card business you do, the more people can demand the airplane,” he said.

NetJets’ losses for the first six months of this year translate into nearly $700,000 per airplane. “Those are terrifying numbers,” Riegel said. “Almost anything they do [to fix the problem] is going to take years.”

There remains a need for the fractional concept, but major providers have to revise their business models. NetJets has too many airplanes to serve its customers and, in Riegel’s view, should cut its fleet to around 170 airplanes versus the 500 it has now.

NetJets is allowing some owners to idle their shares by stopping flying, letting them keep the shares without paying the monthly management fee. Riegel said he expects these aircraft–which he estimates number approximately 160–to sit idle for a few months before NetJets asks the owners to resume paying management fees or sell their shares. “Many will pull the plug,” he said of owners who have held their shares in the hope that used aircraft prices would recover. “[That would] worsen the problem for the fractionals.”
 

So, do you think the consultant's estimation of customer demand resulting in hundreds of aircraft leaving the fleet is on target or off base?

I found this article on an APC thread and frankly, it is jar-dropping and I hope not going to come to fruition. I still think the economic improvement we are seeing may "reduce" the total number of fractional clients dropping/selling their shares. The question is whether sales of shares will be close to what they were in the past going forward - I doubt it.

Although I am sure Avantair and some of the lower-cost fractionals may benefit from defections from Netjets and others. Still, the article is pretty gloomy and it does not paint a good picture of the fractional business. Good luck to everyone involved!
 
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My guess is NetJets turns a profit in 2010 and there will be no more layoffs. The crews that are still on property are going to be very busy over the next couple years.
 
My guess is NetJets turns a profit in 2010 and there will be no more layoffs. The crews that are still on property are going to be very busy over the next couple years.

And you base this on what and how many aircraft remaining in the fleet?

I agree that your new CEO will likely "do what it takes" to achieve profitability. He wants to be Warren's replacement and he will do what it takes as quickly as possible to impress Warren and the shareholders. I'm afraid he's the type who would use a hatchet instead of a scalpel to remove a mole.
 
My guess is NetJets turns a profit in 2010 and there will be no more layoffs. The crews that are still on property are going to be very busy over the next couple years.

You mean they'll have to actually work now instead of sitting at the Hyatt? I hope they don't have to start staying at holiday inn's. what is this industry coming to?
 
My guess is NetJets turns a profit in 2010 and there will be no more layoffs. The crews that are still on property are going to be very busy over the next couple years.

You mean you "HOPE" they turn a profit. Welcome to the world of "Airline type CEOs." Your new guy, as johnsonrod says, wants his Buffet's job. He will do whatever it takes to get a profit, regardless of what happens to the fleet or employees. Didn't Capt Underpants say Netjets was invincible, regardless of the economy, thanks to private owners getting rid of their jets and buying fractional shares? The days of careless spending look over unfortunately. Good luck to you guys.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
You mean you "HOPE" they turn a profit. Welcome to the world of "Airline type CEOs." Your new guy, as johnsonrod says, wants his Buffet's job.
Not "my new guy" I was lucky enough to get a great job out of my home airport but that is besides the point. You're right, he will do what it takes to make money, but I don't think it will come much more on the expense of employees. The cut has been made and I am optimistic that will be it. Believe it or not most of us were not just 'sitting at the Hyatt' the last few months. Flying is picking up again over there and they are selling new shares. NetJets will be fine. I think a lot of people just want to see them fail. My prediction is that they will call people back sooner than expected.
 
You mean you "HOPE" they turn a profit. Welcome to the world of "Airline type CEOs." Your new guy, as johnsonrod says, wants his Buffet's job. He will do whatever it takes to get a profit, regardless of what happens to the fleet or employees. Didn't Capt Underpants say Netjets was invincible, regardless of the economy, thanks to private owners getting rid of their jets and buying fractional shares? The days of careless spending look over unfortunately. Good luck to you guys.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Yawn:rolleyes: More crap from a Netjets hater, and self proclaimed aviation expert
 
Yawn:rolleyes: More crap from a Netjets hater, and self proclaimed aviation expert

Yeah, and the guy who wrote the article hates Netjets too.... oh yeah, and your new CEO hates the "old" Netjets, and will take care of the spending problem.......because he is a "hater" of overspending....

Sorry man, but the gravy days are over. No more Salmon sandwiches off of a menu from the FBOs.....welcome to pretzels and peanuts.....(like the rest of us)


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Sorry man, but the gravy days are over. No more Salmon sandwiches off of a menu from the FBOs.....welcome to pretzels and peanuts.....(like the rest of us)
Really? I am not seeing that.

Enjoy the Super 8. Hope they left a light on for ya.
 
You mean you "HOPE" they turn a profit. Welcome to the world of "Airline type CEOs." Your new guy, as johnsonrod says, wants his Buffet's job.
Not "my new guy" I was lucky enough to get a great job out of my home airport but that is besides the point. You're right, he will do what it takes to make money, but I don't think it will come much more on the expense of employees. The cut has been made and I am optimistic that will be it. Believe it or not most of us were not just 'sitting at the Hyatt' the last few months. Flying is picking up again over there and they are selling new shares. NetJets will be fine. I think a lot of people just want to see them fail. My prediction is that they will call people back sooner than expected.

Say what???? Read the article again. Your new CEO wants heads to roll. Did you read about his conference call with department heads, where he yelled "come clean or lose your jobs!!!" I guess you missed that part. He will do whatever it takes to clean up the overspending. Why would an analyst say you should have only 180 planes vs the 500 you have now? That aint good. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Really? I am not seeing that.

Enjoy the Super 8. Hope they left a light on for ya.

You will, and I think you will like that motel. No more sitting around in Hyatts all day waiting for a call from Columbus. Nope. Hampton Inns will suit you all fine, and I hear they have free Breakfasts in the morning. Don't worry, we had a wake up call in our BK, cutting our pay and pensions. Unfortunately it looks like you may be in the same boat. Good luck!

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Say what???? Read the article again. Your new CEO wants heads to roll. Did you read about his conference call with department heads, where he yelled "come clean or lose your jobs!!!" I guess you missed that part. He will do whatever it takes to clean up the overspending. Why would an analyst say you should have only 180 planes vs the 500 you have now? That aint good. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I guess because it was written by a journalist that makes it so. What would somebody that actually worked there know? We will have to wait and see what happens but I think there is no way no how that the fleet will be reduced to that number. You should get out of the habit of believing everything you read in the paper. There were some staff cuts, they probably could have cut a few more, but they didn't. Wish the guys who are still on property luck. I don't need your 'good luck' sarcasm. Time will prove you wrong and we will have to leave it at that.
Good luck General,
Bye Bye
 
You will, and I think you will like that motel. No more sitting around in Hyatts all day waiting for a call from Columbus. Nope. Hampton Inns will suit you all fine, and I hear they have free Breakfasts in the morning. Don't worry, we had a wake up call in our BK, cutting our pay and pensions. Unfortunately it looks like you may be in the same boat. Good luck!

Bye Bye--General Lee

I agree, no more sitting around. But as far as going BK, I won't have to worry about the contract. It will be over if we file. It is that simple.
 
I guess because it was written by a journalist that makes it so. What would somebody that actually worked there know? We will have to wait and see what happens but I think there is no way no how that the fleet will be reduced to that number. You should get out of the habit of believing everything you read in the paper. There were some staff cuts, they probably could have cut a few more, but they didn't. Wish the guys who are still on property luck. I don't need your 'good luck' sarcasm. Time will prove you wrong and we will have to leave it at that.
Good luck General,
Bye Bye

Time will prove me wrong, eh? I hope so, but I don't think so. Let's look at the facts please. What happened to your old CEO, Santulli? Abruptly leaves, with no real reason (got canned or just really embarrassed). Your new guy is KNOWN to be a hardazz. He yelled at people on a conference call, and that was documented. Any mistruthes yet? Nope. He wants heads, and he wants the over spending to STOP. That aint good. He is listening to guys like the analyst who suggested the smaller fleet numbers. He is looking at numbers, and his own future job possibly as head of Berkshire Hathaway. That job was rumored to possibly go to Santulli, and now he is gone. Seriously, good luck with that.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
I agree, no more sitting around. But as far as going BK, I won't have to worry about the contract. It will be over if we file. It is that simple.

I didn't say you were going BK, since you are backed by a giant called Berkshire Hathaway. Buffet wouldn't allow it. But, he is now aware of the overspending problem, and that will be dealt with, by your new CEO, who likes to yell at people during conference calls. That is the point, an unknown guy who doesn't seem to care as much for pilots as Santulli did is now at the controls, and he aint happy. I meant you are in line for downsizing and lower pay and benefits, which is exactly what happened to most of the legacy airlines. Not fun, I have been there already. But, I married rich. (not a guy named Rich, just a girl with a better job than mine) Just remember, you can fall in love with a rich girl just as fast as you can fall in love with a poor one.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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I find the 180 planes to be more than a little on the low side. If this was scheduled ops then yes 180 planes would work, but this is on demand. The number of planes will be directly related to the number of owners and card holders, not based on the number of flights for a given day or season. The name of the game is flexability. Having less than 400 airplanes will not allow for the flexibility our clients currently need. (The big question is where are they going to dump 100 airplanes) Like all things this can and will change.

Things at NetJets will change. My father flew for Delta from '79-'04 and growing up I got to see that change from a family atmosphere into just a job. It was a good job, but it wasn't what it was. My guess is NetJets will do the same thing. We will work more with less. It will never be a regional job and QOL, but it won't be the easy life we have had for the last three years.

Best of luck to us all,

M Williams
 
Time will prove me wrong, eh? I hope so, but I don't think so. Let's look at the facts please. What happened to your old CEO, Santulli? Abruptly leaves, with no real reason (got canned or just really embarrassed). Your new guy is KNOWN to be a hardazz. He yelled at people on a conference call, and that was documented. Any mistruthes yet? Nope. He wants heads, and he wants the over spending to STOP. That aint good. He is listening to guys like the analyst who suggested the smaller fleet numbers. He is looking at numbers, and his own future job possibly as head of Berkshire Hathaway. That job was rumored to possibly go to Santulli, and now he is gone. Seriously, good luck with that.


Bye Bye---General Lee
Seriously, I don't need your good luck. He wants the overspending to stop and you think that aint good? That is the best thing for NJA. He yelled at people in a conference call? Oh my god! This guy is a lunatic! I can't understand why he wants this company to make money? Seriously, I think you are the one that needs to be wished good luck, you obviously need some seeing as how you are so pessimistic. Gooooood Luck son
Bye Bye
 

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