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So was B19 right or wrong?

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7777

Well-known member
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Oct 25, 2007
Posts
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Here we are. Now that Netjets is going to furlough, the arguments between the Netjets pro union faithful and B-19 have finally come to fruition.

So I ask this, was B-19 right?

Good luck to the Netjet folks who are going to be furloughed. Join the club.
 
I disagree with the pretense of your question, which assumes the union is the reason for the furlough. So, no. B19 was/is not right. The union (and industry leading CBA they negotiated) has provided much needed guidance for the furlough and continues to protect the union membership. There are no job guarantees in life, but there are work rule protections. Furlough is by inverse seniority along with other severance considerations. Lacking a CBA, NetJets could have furloughed from the top or otherwise out of seniority.

Best of luck to those NetJets folks who are below the line.
 
Here we are. Now that Netjets is going to furlough, the arguments between the Netjets pro union faithful and B-19 have finally come to fruition.

So I ask this, was B-19 right?

Good luck to the Netjet folks who are going to be furloughed. Join the club.

The economic downturn, the likes of which hasn't been seen in America since the 1920's, has everything to do with Net Jet's furloughs.
Comparing that to anti union arguments from some pimple faced prick management wannabe like B19 is completely stupid.
Good luck to anyone in this industry right now.
And to answer your question. No he wasn't right!
 
Using the numbers from airline pilot central:

Shares has 20% on the street (non union)
Flex has 18% on the street (non union)
FLOPS has 40% on the street (non union)
XO Jet has 23% on the street (non union)
NetJets will have 17% on the street (union)

B19 blames all the industries woes on unions. I think it's pretty clear from the numbers above that he is wrong and is just a union hater.
 
amaineiac beat me to the numbers.

B19's claim from the beginning was that we'd fall hardest because of the union. As those numbers show, the opposite is true.

He said, "For the past three years I've been saying that the "industry leading contract" at NJ wasn't going to stick. There would be a correction, and when it happened it would be nasty." Again, wrong. Management specifically said they'd work within our contract, and weren't interested in renegotiating it.
 
Using the numbers from airline pilot central:

Shares has 20% on the street (non union)
Flex has 18% on the street (non union)
FLOPS has 40% on the street (non union)
XO Jet has 23% on the street (non union)
NetJets will have 17% on the street (union)

B19 blames all the industries woes on unions. I think it's pretty clear from the numbers above that he is wrong and is just a union hater.

Ahhh! isn't FLOPS a union shop as well?
 
NetJets business model did not suddenly get strained by the pay and work rule improvements, period- those, while not cheap, were small versus the effect of the economic downturn and the devaluation of business jets. NetJets, like many fracs, could have their employees work for free and still have to make major adjustments to cope with the scale of this downturn. And as has been pointed out, there is not the slightest interest in concessions being generated by pilots or management, due to recognition of this fact.
 
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Ahhh! isn't FLOPS a union shop as well?

Yes, but without a contract. Otherwise, amaineiac was right on the money, and B19 is Full of $h!t and just trying to push his anti union agenda.
 
Here we are. Now that Netjets is going to furlough, the arguments between the Netjets pro union faithful and B-19 have finally come to fruition.

So I ask this, was B-19 right?

Good luck to the Netjet folks who are going to be furloughed. Join the club.

With all due respect, you shouldn't have started this thread in the first place. By doing so, you implied that B19 holds some kind of significant part of the discussions. When, in fact, he is just a mindless union bashing troll that isn't worth the time of day.
 
Be careful what you ask for...

Using the numbers from airline pilot central:

Shares has 20% on the street (non union)
Flex has 18% on the street (non union)
FLOPS has 40% on the street (non union)
XO Jet has 23% on the street (non union)
NetJets will have 17% on the street (union)

B19 blames all the industries woes on unions. I think it's pretty clear from the numbers above that he is wrong and is just a union hater.

Would somebody break this down into individual numbers and not cover these up in percentages? 17% from the largest frac seems like a heck of a lot of individual pilots.

Oh, and while your at it... include all the voluntary pilots from the torture NJ pilots had to go through last spring during the first attempt - add those to the numbers also. All of the nirvana that NJW and all the NJ pilots have been throwing at me for years seems to have come around.

I've stated that the "Industry Leading Contract" was going to result in "Industry Leading" furloughs.. and I'm quite sure I'm right (again) about that. The bigger the contract, the more that get furloughed.

Anybody want to start taking bets on when the contract gets reopened?

Yeah, that's the exact same contract that everybody told me that would never get touched..

Of course, that's the same contract and union workforce that was also untouchable a year ago, resulting in no furloughs or layoffs.

All you guys told me it could not happen.


Yep, it happened and it's not over yet...Sad really...


Be careful what you ask for....
 

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