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Delta Hiring

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FBN0223

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Posts
563
I have a friend who I recommended at NWA. He was hired but his class was cancelled. He'll be a strong contender again when DL starts hiring. Considering our current staffing situation, I think that's going to be awhile, maybe 3-5 years. Any other educated guesses on future hiring?.

Also I heard from the ALPA guys that Compass maybe getting their own ALPA representation and will no longer be under the Delta MEC. In the process, they would most likely lose their flow-up agreement.
 
That may not be such a bad thing. When Continental Express (later ExpressJet) and Continental were represented with the same MEC, there was a one for three flow-through agreement. One out of every three new hires was from Continental Express. When the MEC was split and the flow-through was terminated, there was no longer a limit to how many ExpressJet pilots could be in each new hire class and the ratio actually climbed closer to 1 for 2, and in some classes was nearly 1 for 1. In my class 11 out of the 16 new hires were from ExpressJet.
 
I wish for you to change your title, as it does not in fact state that Delta IS hiring.
 
FBN0223 said:
I have a friend who I recommended at NWA. He was hired but his class was cancelled. He'll be a strong contender again when DL starts hiring. Considering our current staffing situation, I think that's going to be awhile, maybe 3-5 years. Any other educated guesses on future hiring?.

Also I heard from the ALPA guys that Compass maybe getting their own ALPA representation and will no longer be under the Delta MEC. In the process, they would most likely lose their flow-up agreement.
Click to expand...

Not true. The language is in both contracts and has nothing to do with whom represents whom. Anything could be negotiated but it's not really in either sides interest to change the agreement.
 
I'll probably piss off some compass guys and gals with this question. But here it goes...

I've always wondered the future of compass since it's restricted to 36 aircraft. Does this limit apply to all aircraft types or just the E175?

I think everyone would agree as a company grows older it's cost to operate usually increase. One big reason is salaries. And to offset this companies usually grow.

MEM and DTW are such small bases I have to question if they're even efficient to keep around in the future.

Just curious if anyone else has thought about this. I honestly don't know if compass is making tons of money or not. And if they have future plans or not.
 
Muskycat said:
I'll probably piss off some compass guys and gals with this question. But here it goes...

I've always wondered the future of compass since it's restricted to 36 aircraft. Does this limit apply to all aircraft types or just the E175?
Click to expand...

Compass is not restricted to a certain number of airplanes. You're probably referring to the grandfathering of the Compass E175AR in to the Delta scope, because its MTOW is above the Delta max. Compass could fly more airplanes (E175 non AR for example) but they would not be exempt from the scope weight limit like the existing 36 are.

Sorry to interrupt the thread
 
mynameisjim said:
Compass is not restricted to a certain number of airplanes. You're probably referring to the grandfathering of the Compass E175AR in to the Delta scope, because its MTOW is above the Delta max. Compass could fly more airplanes (E175 non AR for example) but they would not be exempt from the scope weight limit like the existing 36 are.

Sorry to interrupt the thread
Click to expand...

That makes sense. Similar as Mesaba use to be with the Avro and NWA scope restrictions.

Many thanks
 
If Compass were to form their own MEC, and the flow-up agreement was negated, does that not mean the flow-down agreement is also negated?

This is the first I have heard of this issue. If this in the cards, I would hope that the flow-back agreement would stay in place. That was one of the negotiating points the NWA pilots obtained when the Compass brand was formed.

I know I don't need to explain how important this flow-up / flow-down agreement is to the Delta pilots right now. Without it, Delta could furlough and leave the junior, furloughed pilots without a job. I wouldn't be too sure about Compass terminating the agreement.

Simply put, I don't think they have a legal basis to do so. It is part of our Pilot Working Agreement (PWA)

Any one else that can speak to this?
 
RedRum said:
I know I don't need to explain how important this flow-up / flow-down agreement is to the Delta pilots right now. Without it, Delta could furlough and leave the junior, furloughed pilots without a job. I wouldn't be too sure about Compass terminating the agreement.
Click to expand...

How does having a flow-up/flow down protect all potential furloughees? Isn't compass relatively small in size?
 
It protects every Delta pilot by making furloughing just a little more expensive than without Compass. Granted only the first 360 furloughed Delta pilots will actually have a job, and only 180 of them will make more than unemployment wages.
 
Hi!

I think that with the economy, DAL's position, and the changing FARs, that DAL will start hiring in 6-14 or so months.

cliff
NBO
 
Well we're parking 80 of NWA's old jets. We've had a lot of guys leave from NWA (600 in 2 years) and will have a lot more leave but it will probably be at least another year or two to make up for 80 jets worth of flying.
 
The flow thru at CAL had nothing to do with the single MEC. The flow thru ended when ExpressJet was IPO'd. The problem with the flow thru was that Express pilots went to CAL 1/3 but CAL pilots went to Express 1/1. There was an attempt to fix that and had it been realized every single Express pilot on property in 2004 would have been at CAL within 10yrs. Elimination of the agreement allowed CAL to hire using the good ol' boy way.
Splitting of the MEC came later, and was a stupid idea that was supported by the CAL scab reps. One reason to have a union is to unify a group of workers against management, by splitting the MEC into two groups you work counter to that idea, and make management very happy.
 
Whydoitry said:
The flow thru at CAL had nothing to do with the single MEC. The flow thru ended when ExpressJet was IPO'd. The problem with the flow thru was that Express pilots went to CAL 1/3 but CAL pilots went to Express 1/1. There was an attempt to fix that and had it been realized every single Express pilot on property in 2004 would have been at CAL within 10yrs. Elimination of the agreement allowed CAL to hire using the good ol' boy way.
Splitting of the MEC came later, and was a stupid idea that was supported by the CAL scab reps. One reason to have a union is to unify a group of workers against management, by splitting the MEC into two groups you work counter to that idea, and make management very happy.
Click to expand...

Tell that to the Delta guys; rumor has it Compass will be spun off in the October Delta MEC meeting.
 
Muskycat said:
I'll probably piss off some compass guys and gals with this question. But here it goes...

I've always wondered the future of compass since it's restricted to 36 aircraft. Does this limit apply to all aircraft types or just the E175?

I personally don't see a long term future for Compass, but then, I don't see a long term future for any regional airline...or most major airlines for that matter. Tough business...

I think everyone would agree as a company grows older it's cost to operate usually increase. One big reason is salaries. And to offset this companies usually grow.

If pilots flow, salaries stay low. Compass is set up so there should be relatively few senior pilots. If flow goes away this dynamic would change.

MEM and DTW are such small bases I have to question if they're even efficient to keep around in the future.

Bases come and go, no one can see the future. ATL and NY are future possibilities, but that is pure speculation.

Just curious if anyone else has thought about this. I honestly don't know if compass is making tons of money or not. And if they have future plans or not.
Click to expand...

.....
 
RedRum said:
If Compass were to form their own MEC, and the flow-up agreement was negated, does that not mean the flow-down agreement is also negated?

This is the first I have heard of this issue. If this in the cards, I would hope that the flow-back agreement would stay in place. That was one of the negotiating points the NWA pilots obtained when the Compass brand was formed.

I know I don't need to explain how important this flow-up / flow-down agreement is to the Delta pilots right now. Without it, Delta could furlough and leave the junior, furloughed pilots without a job. I wouldn't be too sure about Compass terminating the agreement.

Simply put, I don't think they have a legal basis to do so. It is part of our Pilot Working Agreement (PWA)

Any one else that can speak to this?
Click to expand...

Without flow up there is no flow down. That said, a huge majority of Compass pilots want to keep status quo on flow. I have yet to meet a Compass pilot who doesn't want to keep flow in place. A large majority would also like to stay part of the Delta MEC. The movement to kick us out comes from Lee Moak and, I'm guessing, ALPA lawyers.
 
If DAL does in fact park the 80 or so rumored airframes in the next 18 months we will not be hiring. (742, DC-9 30-40's, and the NWA 5500 series 757's) I would not be surprised to see these jets go. There will be replacements of some of these jets, and some of those jets are sitting in the desert. Some are not yet made.

As for the new limitations, I do not think it will effect DAL staffing as much as some hope. We have good work rules etc, and I would not be surprised to see the law mirror our contract.
 
DrewBlows said:
Without flow up there is no flow down. That said, a huge majority of Compass pilots want to keep status quo on flow. I have yet to meet a Compass pilot who doesn't want to keep flow in place. A large majority would also like to stay part of the Delta MEC. The movement to kick us out comes from Lee Moak and, I'm guessing, ALPA lawyers.
Click to expand...

The flow survives a sale of the airline. If that flow becomes null there are some poison pills as well. Reference NWA LOA 2006-10 and 12. as well as the JPWA.
 
Also, the thrust behind the separate MEC for CPS is not Lee. It is the issues that many see with representing them.

I do not agree with them, but it is not a hate driven issue.
 
ACL65PILOT said:
The flow survives a sale of the airline. If that flow becomes null there are some poison pills as well. Reference NWA LOA 2006-10 and 12. as well as the JPWA.
Click to expand...

Exactly, the CPZ flow is written totally different than the COEX flow agreement. If CPZ is sold the flow goes with it.
 
"...I would not be surprised to see these jets go. There will be replacements of some of these jets, and some of those jets are sitting in the desert. Some are not yet made."


How does one do that? Park an unmade jet, I mean.
 
Colonel Savage said:
"...I would not be surprised to see these jets go. There will be replacements of some of these jets, and some of those jets are sitting in the desert. Some are not yet made."


How does one do that? Park an unmade jet, I mean.
Click to expand...


Not park a unmade jet, but produce a jet for a jet that will be parked.
 

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