More CR7's for American Eagle

[pipejockey]

No, because my point is that anything over 50 seats should be mainline, period.

I guess that it's a little too late for that now.

You are completely wrong!! Anything over 0 seats should be mainline, period! But no, oh the humanity if the dorks coming out of the military with their guaranteed mainline job had to fly an aircraft with less than 100 seats at regional pay for 3 to 5 years. They are too good for that, thus we have the regional carriers for civilian pilots who are just scraping by, and the mainline jobs are reserved for the military pilots with the gaps at mainline being filled in by us 2nd rate civilian guys. If anyone doesn't think this is a huge part of the problem as to how we got to this point with regionals flying more and larger aircraft, then your head needs to be checked!

 

[EMBPILOT1]

Mainline guys had the chance to fly regionals years and years ago and chose not to. They opened a door that can't be closed.

 

[waka]

You are completely wrong!! Anything over 0 seats should be mainline, period! But no, oh the humanity if the dorks coming out of the military with their guaranteed mainline job had to fly an aircraft with less than 100 seats at regional pay for 3 to 5 years. They are too good for that, thus we have the regional carriers for civilian pilots who are just scraping by, and the mainline jobs are reserved for the military pilots with the gaps at mainline being filled in by us 2nd rate civilian guys. If anyone doesn't think this is a huge part of the problem as to how we got to this point with regionals flying more and larger aircraft, then your head needs to be checked!

Whoa there Skippy. I agree with your sentiment. However, there is a place for regional airlines. Perhaps the number is less than 50 but, it is definitely more than 0.

I disagree with your if/then statement. Regional carriers are not "for civilian pilots" as there are plenty of ex-military in the regionals. There are prima donnas in the military as well as the civilian world. The real problem has much more to do with the Wal Martization of the airline industry and weak kneed pilot unions. Also, this us vs them.civilian vs military attitude you has doesn't help solidarity one bit......something that the industry really needs.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Whoa there Skippy. I agree with your sentiment. However, there is a place for regional airlines. Perhaps the number is less than 50 but, it is definitely more than 0.

I disagree with your if/then statement. Regional carriers are not "for civilian pilots" as there are plenty of ex-military in the regionals. There are prima donnas in the military as well as the civilian world. The real problem has much more to do with the Wal Martization of the airline industry and weak kneed pilot unions. Also, this us vs them.civilian vs military attitude you has doesn't help solidarity one bit......something that the industry really needs.

This is more correct, and level headed.

 

[Full of LUV]

Military not a factor any more....

You are completely wrong!! Anything over 0 seats should be mainline, period! But no, oh the humanity if the dorks coming out of the military with their guaranteed mainline job had to fly an aircraft with less than 100 seats at regional pay for 3 to 5 years. They are too good for that, thus we have the regional carriers for civilian pilots who are just scraping by, and the mainline jobs are reserved for the military pilots with the gaps at mainline being filled in by us 2nd rate civilian guys. If anyone doesn't think this is a huge part of the problem as to how we got to this point with regionals flying more and larger aircraft, then your head needs to be checked!

Pipejockey,
I think your disdain for the military pilots is a little out of date as the paradigm has now changed. I think the military probably produces about a 1/3 to 1/2 less pilots than just a decade ago, look at all the types of planes that have been retired. Of those, many many more are Helo pilots compared to fixed wing of last decade. The military is even accelerating that transition with increased UAV usage. Of the fixed wing pilots, many do not get out until retirement age because of the way the industry has worked for the last decade, and of those, many have no wish to go to a "regional" job for just enough wages to cover the tax on their pension.
Bottom line, I don't think it's the military pilots that by and large take the $30K a year jobs and compete with the embry riddle and Comair academy grads. Most of the military pilots are older with families so this living in an RV in the LAX airport to fly planes is not a viable option. So in that vein, you are right, that if there was no opportunity for a fixed wing military pilot to hire into a position that was a least a livable wage within a few years, there would be no military presence in the airlines.

 

[pipejockey]

Pipejockey,
I think your disdain for the military pilots is a little out of date as the paradigm has now changed. I think the military probably produces about a 1/3 to 1/2 less pilots than just a decade ago, look at all the types of planes that have been retired. Of those, many many more are Helo pilots compared to fixed wing of last decade. The military is even accelerating that transition with increased UAV usage. Of the fixed wing pilots, many do not get out until retirement age because of the way the industry has worked for the last decade, and of those, many have no wish to go to a "regional" job for just enough wages to cover the tax on their pension.
Bottom line, I don't think it's the military pilots that by and large take the $30K a year jobs and compete with the embry riddle and Comair academy grads. Most of the military pilots are older with families so this living in an RV in the LAX airport to fly planes is not a viable option. So in that vein, you are right, that if there was no opportunity for a fixed wing military pilot to hire into a position that was a least a livable wage within a few years, there would be no military presence in the airlines.

Yes, we are on the same page here. Because the military guys will flat out refuse to fly the RJ's and turbo props because of pay, you will never see all of an airlines flying brought back into the domain of the mainline pilots where it belongs. So those in this industry who have not gone the military route but instead went civilian with a regional and perhaps didn't get their regional job until 30 years old or so, and are stuck in the quagmire of one of the several airlines with 10 year upgrades, these folks will not get the PIC time needed for a job at a major until they are well into their 40's. And because mainline pilots will never approve anything that would require their military buddies to have to fly regional aircraft at regional pay for a few years, even though they would all be on the same list as everyone else, and given time would be able to hold an aircraft with 100+ seats and be on major pay, as a result 70% of the regional pilots will be stuck at these puke regionals for the rest of their lives.

Destroying the careers of many thousands of civilian pilots stuck at the regionals by keeping separate seniority lists thus blocking them from mainline equipment, just to protect the military to mainline superhighway seems a tad unjust. Ever hear the saying that the good of the many outweigh the good of the few?

 

[B727FA]

A friend told me that Management is breaking the news to the CHQ folks today that the STL base is closing in April after 10 years of being a crew base.

Interestingly enough, 09 was the sked end of the STL/TWE//AACnx deal anyway. Not a shock to BB in IND for sure.

 

[Speedtape]

No, because my point is that anything over 50 seats should be mainline, period.

I guess that it's a little too late for that now.

And Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny should be real..............!

Don't worry, furloughed AA pilots will be the Captains on them, so I guess you got a compromise.

 

[EMBPILOT1]

Interestingly enough, 09 was the sked end of the STL/TWE//AACnx deal anyway. Not a shock to BB in IND for sure.

Actually it was or is 2013. They signed the 10 year deal in 2003. I am actually shocked it lasted as long as it did. BB would get rid of all his 50 seat or less aircraft if he could.

 

[DGdaPilot]

Don't worry, furloughed AA pilots will be the Captains on them, so I guess you got a compromise.

Huh? We don't have any flowbacks left at Eagle....at least as Captains.

 

[I Hate Freight]

No, because my point is that anything over 50 seats should be mainline, period.

I guess that it's a little too late for that now.

Wait until the 90-seaters show up at Eagle.

 

[shroomwell]

So what are the upgrades at Eagle right now?

 

[I Hate Freight]

So what are the upgrades at Eagle right now?

We have 9.5 year f/o's.

 

[Draginass]

Interesting news, looks like some people gave in to allow some more rrrrrjjjjjj's. But Shhh....they probably didn't want anyone to realize that.

Nope, it was a grievance. It was a arbitrators decision. He rolled for AMR contending that they had a secret verbal agreement to keep the options open on hundreds of millions of dollars of aircraft which they did not tell the American pilots' union about, even though it was required. He awarded a total victory for the AMR management and zero penalty for non-compliance with the contract.

Draw you own conclusions.

 

[NRHPilot]

We have 9.5 year f/o's.

10 years in March for me in the right seat.