More CR7's for American Eagle

[pipejockey]

Pipejockey,
I think your disdain for the military pilots is a little out of date as the paradigm has now changed. I think the military probably produces about a 1/3 to 1/2 less pilots than just a decade ago, look at all the types of planes that have been retired. Of those, many many more are Helo pilots compared to fixed wing of last decade. The military is even accelerating that transition with increased UAV usage. Of the fixed wing pilots, many do not get out until retirement age because of the way the industry has worked for the last decade, and of those, many have no wish to go to a "regional" job for just enough wages to cover the tax on their pension.
Bottom line, I don't think it's the military pilots that by and large take the $30K a year jobs and compete with the embry riddle and Comair academy grads. Most of the military pilots are older with families so this living in an RV in the LAX airport to fly planes is not a viable option. So in that vein, you are right, that if there was no opportunity for a fixed wing military pilot to hire into a position that was a least a livable wage within a few years, there would be no military presence in the airlines.

Yes, we are on the same page here. Because the military guys will flat out refuse to fly the RJ's and turbo props because of pay, you will never see all of an airlines flying brought back into the domain of the mainline pilots where it belongs. So those in this industry who have not gone the military route but instead went civilian with a regional and perhaps didn't get their regional job until 30 years old or so, and are stuck in the quagmire of one of the several airlines with 10 year upgrades, these folks will not get the PIC time needed for a job at a major until they are well into their 40's. And because mainline pilots will never approve anything that would require their military buddies to have to fly regional aircraft at regional pay for a few years, even though they would all be on the same list as everyone else, and given time would be able to hold an aircraft with 100+ seats and be on major pay, as a result 70% of the regional pilots will be stuck at these puke regionals for the rest of their lives.

Destroying the careers of many thousands of civilian pilots stuck at the regionals by keeping separate seniority lists thus blocking them from mainline equipment, just to protect the military to mainline superhighway seems a tad unjust. Ever hear the saying that the good of the many outweigh the good of the few?

 

[B727FA]

A friend told me that Management is breaking the news to the CHQ folks today that the STL base is closing in April after 10 years of being a crew base.

Interestingly enough, 09 was the sked end of the STL/TWE//AACnx deal anyway. Not a shock to BB in IND for sure.

 

[Speedtape]

No, because my point is that anything over 50 seats should be mainline, period.

I guess that it's a little too late for that now.

And Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny should be real..............!

Don't worry, furloughed AA pilots will be the Captains on them, so I guess you got a compromise.

 

[EMBPILOT1]

Interestingly enough, 09 was the sked end of the STL/TWE//AACnx deal anyway. Not a shock to BB in IND for sure.

Actually it was or is 2013. They signed the 10 year deal in 2003. I am actually shocked it lasted as long as it did. BB would get rid of all his 50 seat or less aircraft if he could.

 

[DGdaPilot]

Don't worry, furloughed AA pilots will be the Captains on them, so I guess you got a compromise.

Huh? We don't have any flowbacks left at Eagle....at least as Captains.

 

[I Hate Freight]

No, because my point is that anything over 50 seats should be mainline, period.

I guess that it's a little too late for that now.

Wait until the 90-seaters show up at Eagle.

 

[shroomwell]

So what are the upgrades at Eagle right now?

 

[I Hate Freight]

So what are the upgrades at Eagle right now?

We have 9.5 year f/o's.

 

[Draginass]

Interesting news, looks like some people gave in to allow some more rrrrrjjjjjj's. But Shhh....they probably didn't want anyone to realize that.

Nope, it was a grievance. It was a arbitrators decision. He rolled for AMR contending that they had a secret verbal agreement to keep the options open on hundreds of millions of dollars of aircraft which they did not tell the American pilots' union about, even though it was required. He awarded a total victory for the AMR management and zero penalty for non-compliance with the contract.

Draw you own conclusions.

 

[NRHPilot]

We have 9.5 year f/o's.

10 years in March for me in the right seat.

 

[LavMan]

10 years in March for me in the right seat.

And one month of senority you can hold SJU. Yeah buddy! Get your bid in!

 

[shroomwell]

Sorry to hear that guys. At least there aren't any flowbacks in the left seat.

 

[pipejockey]

Wait until the 90-seaters show up at Eagle.

Surely you are not in support of that are you? I just don't understand why so many rj guys want larger and larger jets at the useless regionals instead of at mainline, creating jobs where the most money can be made.

 

[Full of LUV]

Not the biggest factor....

Yes, we are on the same page here. Because the military guys will flat out refuse to fly the RJ's and turbo props because of pay, you will never see all of an airlines flying brought back into the domain of the mainline pilots where it belongs. So those in this industry who have not gone the military route but instead went civilian with a regional and perhaps didn't get their regional job until 30 years old or so, and are stuck in the quagmire of one of the several airlines with 10 year upgrades, these folks will not get the PIC time needed for a job at a major until they are well into their 40's. And because mainline pilots will never approve anything that would require their military buddies to have to fly regional aircraft at regional pay for a few years, even though they would all be on the same list as everyone else, and given time would be able to hold an aircraft with 100+ seats and be on major pay, as a result 70% of the regional pilots will be stuck at these puke regionals for the rest of their lives.

Destroying the careers of many thousands of civilian pilots stuck at the regionals by keeping separate seniority lists thus blocking them from mainline equipment, just to protect the military to mainline superhighway seems a tad unjust. Ever hear the saying that the good of the many outweigh the good of the few?

I still think that the number of military pilots entering the civilian market is a tiny fraction of what it was just 10 years ago. The military is flying much less fixed wing aircraft nowadays and that is steadily going to uav over time. Alot of the transport stuff is contracted out, so really what you have is a plethora of rotorheads and low time pilots that aren't able to leave the military until age 30 at the earliest. They are not the Boogeyman. I think age 65 with the economy has done more to arrest your budding airline career than any other factor.
Luv

 

[OUjetdrvr]

the useless regionals instead of at mainline, creating jobs where the most money can be made.

Stop thinking like a pilot and apply some business economics....if that kind of money could have been made with those aircraft at that level it already would be post script...think of the Fokker at AA.
We are simply picking up the pieces of artifacts from the battlefield.

 

[pipejockey]

the useless regionals instead of at mainline, creating jobs where the most money can be made.

Stop thinking like a pilot and apply some business economics....if that kind of money could have been made with those aircraft at that level it already would be post script...think of the Fokker at AA.
We are simply picking up the pieces of artifacts from the battlefield.

Yes, like the vultures we have all become. And perhaps things should be changed a bit with less emphasis on the business economics of it all and more to the human element of it. It looks like you may be an Eagle pilot. You prove my point about the regional pilots only interested in short term gain as opposed to long term future, especially for those who come after us. Good ole capitalist greed. Well the mainline pilots have the ability to remedy this situation we are in today by agreeing to fly anything with less than 100 seats at current regional rates, the new b scale if you will, and once seniority permits and they can hold an aircraft with greater than 100 seats they are on A scale. It is the best of an all around bad situation in this industry. Seat locks and fences to keep the regional guys from being furlough fodder, and the mainline guys from being displaced by senior regional guys and once all mainline furloughed guys have been recalled, then its whatever your seniority can hold. But that brings up my point about the good ole boys club of military pilots up at mainline that will never allow that because they will not have their buddies have to be hired on as an rj pilot for a few years. Thus most guys at the regionals these days are progressing down a dead end road. Unless flying a regional jet 18 days a month, up to 5 legs a day, for 20 to 80 grand a year is your idea of a good career.

 

[Draginass]

the useless regionals instead of at mainline, creating jobs where the most money can be made.

Stop thinking like a pilot and apply some business economics....if that kind of money could have been made with those aircraft at that level it already would be post script...think of the Fokker at AA.
We are simply picking up the pieces of artifacts from the battlefield.

The only reason regionals may be making a little money is because of the parasite fee-for-departure schemes. Try flying an RJ using real economics and they'd be gone. The F100 was unsupportable maintenance-wise, which cause it's demise.