F9 still in play

[StaySeated]

Imo, the fair thing would have been to put the number one F9 pilot one number junior to the SWA pilot with the closest, earlier date of hire. It would be from that point down that "relative seniority" should have applied, including a domicile fence and seat fence.

Skipper

Actually, the most reasonable agreement was very close to this, only better for the SWAPA guys.

Plug #1 FAPA in the SWAPA list at his DOH.

Ratio the rest of the FAPA list in at 11 to 1.

Domicile protect the FAPA guys that wanted to stay in Denver, giving them one chance to decide.

Protect upgrades for every SWAPA FO (last guy on the list, what is his name again?, triggers the upgrade for FAPA llist)

Too bad we never met on Thursday. Had SWAPA presented something closer to what Karl alluded too on Wednesday morning then this might have been the first proposal from FAPA. We will never know.

 

[scoreboardII]

DOH and 11:1.

This is what they mean when they say "Rocky Mountain High"...

 

[Lear70]

It's funny really, there is no national airline union. We are all a loosely aligned group of individuals who make up airline seniority lists (and individual MEC's).

Any semblance of national unity is exposed as fraudulent when mergers are considered.

Outside of matters of safety and political lobbying there is no solidarity.

This bears repeating...

Until we all are willing to make some sacrifices in the interest of solidarity, nothing will change.

The rest of this thread is pretty much useless at this point...

 

[climb2slow]

That's okay, I think that we have all learned some things about the 'real' Southwest culture. Something that many of us were unaware of except for those who have been close to it before (ATA). I have many friends at SWA, but this whole goat rope has been much more of a black eye to them than to us. Personally, being stapled to their list, and then spend the next 5 years on furlough so they could 'protect their own' is not exactly something I cared for. And pay protection? Not much good when you are furloughed. The $3000 a month that FAPA is referenced to asking for, related to the additional 130 furloughs that would have been directly caused by the SWA deal, not just something they were seeking for the 59 currently furloughed.

 

[redflyer65]

What are they getting now on furlough?

 

[airlinepilot]

SWA has never put anyone on furlough but I don't think anyone would get anything in the form or pay or health care other than the offer of Cobra. Is there any pilot contract that pays for guys/gals on furlough???

 

[climb2slow]

What are they getting now on furlough?

They aren't furloughed now. And although that may or may not happen with republic, at least they were immediately furloughed as they would have been under the SWA deal.

 

[climb2slow]

SWA has never put anyone on furlough but I don't think anyone would get anything in the form or pay or health care other than the offer of Cobra. Is there any pilot contract that pays for guys/gals on furlough???

And, thanks to SWA withdrawing their bid, they still havn't put anyone on furlough. It was a negotiating point with the unions to offset the SWA purchase of only 80% of F9. Like it or not, it would have let to furloughs. But relax...the mightly Southwest can still say they have not caused any furloughs.

 

[firstthird]

....
Several SWAPA members wanted this deal, especially the junior guys. Who would YOU rather blame, FAPA or your own company?
...

I admire your effort to 'set the record straight' but I take exception to you calling our M&A committee liars.

your above statement is ridiculous. very few at SWAPA are looking for someone to blame. more than one guy has said that no member of the M&A committee will be buying beers for a long time.

SWAPA got huge cred with its members for this whole deal.

but if you look at it from the outside, SWAPA has no incentive to lie about this. they had FOs and CAs involved, not just the union president and a few senior guys who had a 'secret TA' with RAH in their back pocket.

I'm very happy that SWA and F9 didn't merge and almost every FO and most captains feel the same that I've talked with. Herb and Colleen both said 'never again' after the Morris acquisition. We as a company seem to have forgotten that.

I hope that F9 works out for you but you'd be better off to stop calling our union leaders liars. They kept us, the SWAPA pilots, in the loop and up to date during the whole affair. Did FAPA do that for you guys? who has more reason to hide? I don't know and don't care but I do know that is ticks me off to see you call our union liars.

We're happy that it didn't go down, at least I am. If you are too, then great, we're all happy. You'll notice that I'm not calling your FAPA guys liars. no one seems to post any of the communications you get. fine by me but you guys sitting on your secret communiques while pretty much every SWAPA missive has been put on this forum, lord knows why, tells me that we aren't the ones hiding something. if anything the guys posting our internal emails oughta be hiding more. We have nothing to prove and neither do you. it is what it is.

and don't say 'get over it, you guys didn't get us.' Nowhere in this post did I say I wanted this to happen. I don't think the majority at SWAPA did either. The managements threw us together, we didn't come to an agreement, the deal fell through. end of story. unless someone gets on here and defames our union by saying they are lying, which you are doing.

 

[airlinepilot]

Everyone got what they wanted!

 

[Cornelius]

SWA/FO: the majority of us are proud of our union. Go find another deal and maybe you guys will finally stop posting about F9.

 

[Cometman]

SWA/FO: the majority of us are proud of our union. Go find another deal and maybe you guys will finally stop posting about F9.

They will probably take 49% of F9 and then your union will not have to do anything.

 

[SWA/FO]

Hopefully, you continue to be proud of your union.

A few months back, I ran into one of your union members and he was saying the union was trying to do an employee purchase of the airline (like UAL did). He didn't seem to excited about RAH.

 

[Bookingsareup]

Hopefully, you continue to be proud of your union.

A few months back, I ran into one of your union members and he was saying the union was trying to do an employee purchase of the airline (like UAL did). He didn't seem to excited about RAH.

Warning: this statement is not true. Not even close.

With each passing post we get further and further away from reality.

 

[SWA/FO]

You want me to post his name? He was on his way to SFO to talk to investors. He jumpsat on us.

 

[Bookingsareup]

You want me to post his name? He was on his way to SFO to talk to investors. He jumpsat on us.

Yes, please do.

 

[BJK]

You want me to post his name? He was on his way to SFO to talk to investors. He jumpsat on us.

He is a line pilot who was entertaining the idea of an employee buyout on his own. He lives in SFO and he is connected to potential investors. He probably ran it by the union, but it is highly unlikely that any discussions with investors were an behalf of the union. Strictly information gathering as one of a multitude of alternative "ideas".

 

[Bookingsareup]

He is a line pilot who was entertaining the idea of an employee buyout on his own. He lives in SFO and he is connected to potential investors. He probably ran it by the union, but it is highly unlikely that any discussions with investors were an behalf of the union. Strictly information gathering as one of a multitude of alternative "ideas".

Ok, so I'll assume this is the same person swa/fo was talking about. Your story sounds Plausible.

 

[BJK]

Ok, so I'll assume this is the same person swa/fo was talking about. Your story sounds Plausible.

Definitely plausible since I flew with the guy a couple months ago and discussed his ideas in detail. Of course, there could have been more than one F9 pilot thinking and discussing the same thing. On the surface, it seemed like an alright idea until you dig into what an employee buyout actually involves.

 

[SWA/FO]

the SWA/FO don't make $hit up.