Congrat's The goose is cooked!

[WayBack]

They will work for little of nothing just to get that experience. All they want is to gain experience fast so they can apply to a major airline as quickly as possible. Trouble is, by voting in crappy contracts, the regionals as well as the majors are destroying the career.

This is all because ALPA hasn't figured out how a real Union works.
You have guys flying the CRJ200 at airline ABC making $35/hr and then guys flying the same airplane at XYZ airlines for $15/hr.
By doing this, ALPO is helping the airlines whipsaw each other.....but who said that ALPO was really looking out for the commuter airlines best interest? FYI, I'm sick of hearing the term "Regional Airlines" ...That's nothing but a PC term for "Commuter Airline".

 

[xjhawk]

HEy my thoughts are that as long as the top guys at the majors are making a lot of money I am happy. Why is this guy complaining, the union is only doing what it has traditionally done! Kidding

 

[hockeypilot44]

It's never too late if it is still apropriate. Regional pilots vote in whatever is laid in front of them. The exception being Comair.

They remind of the flight instructors that would walk into the flight school looking for a CFI job and they willing to work for free just to gain experience.

Now I know I'm steroetyping here, but I know too many regioanl pilots are not willing to vote no on a contract because they don't want to risk having their company go under or lose flying to another airline.

They will work for little of nothing just to get that experience. All they want is to gain experience fast so they can apply to a major airline as quickly as possible. Trouble is, by voting in crappy contracts, the regionals as well as the majors are destroying the career.

The bold statement is flat out wrong. There are no exceptions. I remember about 4 years ago when the Comair pilots voluntarily voted for a pay freeze to get airplanes that they never saw. The pay freeze stood though.

 

[pilotyip]

EFCA dead issue

MGMT has it all figured out. You make 12k as a CFII so you will gladly make the jump to 18k at the regional.

It is time for tire irons, basball bats and 5 minute educations.

Can't do that now to enhance membership, EFCA is now a dead issue in congress.

 

[pilotyip]

good money

and you will flying that 737-800 for 95k a year!

whats wrong with $95K, it is in the upper 15% of all wage earners in the US, and something you don't even need a college degree to get the job.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Yip,

We get it. Why should we accept the top 15%? Why shouldn't we be in the top 1% or even top 5%? Just because you got stuck at a non sched. your whole career why should the rest of us lower our expectations? Do you think the yahoos ruining (oops, running) our companies set their personal financial goals so low? I know you know that VERY FEW pilots at the majors do not have a degree. Whether or not one is needed is another story. But to tell new pilots in the industry one is not needed is misleading at best.

 

[pilotyip]

I do not understand

Yip,

We get it. Why should we accept the top 15%? Why shouldn't we be in the top 1% or even top 5%? Just because you got stuck at a non sched. your whole career why should the rest of us lower our expectations? Do you think the yahoos ruining (oops, running) our companies set their personal financial goals so low? I know you know that VERY FEW pilots at the majors do not have a degree. Whether or not one is needed is another story. But to tell new pilots in the industry one is not needed is misleading at best.

Yes you should strive for more, but where else could most pilots make more than $95K? My brother GM management, MBA, 30 years in GM management does not break the $100K barrier. As I have psoted before my brother -in-law, who runs a muffler shjop probably makes more than anyone posting on this thread, no college degree. BTW I am still living the dream, I hold the non-sked pilots I flew with in the highest regard, many have gone on better jobs, but their roots are embedded at KYIP. I have only broken the $95K level once in my life. Yet I am extremely comfortable in retirement, own 4 houses, 5 cars and and an airplane. I do not understand the level of happiness with making $95K per year.

 

[Jon Rivoli]

As a regional pilot, way back when "I" voted to turn about 7 or 8 THOUSAND entry level positions at mainline into 7 or 8 THOUSAND career positons at the regional level, I was thinking....., OH, wait a tick. Actually, I wasn't in on that decision. Sorry, I guess you'll have to ask some ALPA/APA mainline pilots about that one.

When I started my regional job, we flew turbo props and SkyWest was a good place to spend 3-5 years. We all know the rest of the story.

What the heck, I was over six figures last year (to the left of the decimal point) as a non check airman line pilot averaging 16 days off a month. Right now, I wouldn't trade my quality of life for juniority at a legacy for anything. That may change in the future, but the people who make those decisions are the same ones who sold out 7 to 8 thousand mainline jobs (excepting the ones that took the lump some early retirement buy out.)

So ALPA/APA, let me know what you decide. My logbook is up to date. Change the game and I'll think about updating my scantron. For now I'll make the best of it.

And please, please stop with this nonsense that the people who's careers you shat upon for you own shortsighted reasons are dragging this profession down. That decision rests with you. I don't have a vote on scope, but I do need to feed my family.

 

[JoeMerchant]

As a regional pilot, way back when "I" voted to turn about 7 or 8 THOUSAND entry level positions at mainline into 7 or 8 THOUSAND career positons at the regional level, I was thinking....., OH, wait a tick. Actually, I wasn't in on that decision. Sorry, I guess you'll have to ask some ALPA/APA mainline pilots about that one.

When I started my regional job, we flew turbo props and SkyWest was a good place to spend 3-5 years. We all know the rest of the story.

What the heck, I was over six figures last year (to the left of the decimal point) as a non check airman line pilot averaging 16 days off a month. Right now, I wouldn't trade my quality of life for juniority at a legacy for anything. That may change in the future, but the people who make those decisions are the same ones who sold out 7 to 8 thousand mainline jobs (excepting the ones that took the lump some early retirement buy out.)

So ALPA/APA, let me know what you decide. My logbook is up to date. Change the game and I'll think about updating my scantron. For now I'll make the best of it.

And please, please stop with this nonsense that the people who's careers you shat upon for you own shortsighted reasons are dragging this profession down. That decision rests with you. I don't have a vote on scope, but I do need to feed my family.

:beer:
Very well said...This a view that is shared by a growing number of "regional" pilots...

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

You can share any view you want. However, unless we give anymore of section 1 up you are headed for a whipsaw of epic proportions in the future. Way too many small lift providers and you all will be competing vigorously for the shrinking pie as airline systems are combined and rationalized.

:beer:
Very well said...This a view that is shared by a growing number of "regional" pilots...

 

[CptMurf]

FYI, I'm sick of hearing the term "Regional Airlines" ...That's nothing but a PC term for "Commuter Airline".

Unless your "Commute" is a thousand mile flight, I'll stick with the Regional moniker. Give up some more scope and we'll have to call it "Domestic Airlines."

I, like most of the senior "Regional" pilots did not intend on being here so long. But due to 9-11, mainline bankruptcies, relaxed scope, economic turmoil, and age 65 were stuck here. All we can do is make our contracts better than when we got here. Unfortunately, the baby boomer pilots have destroyed the industry by starting "commuter" airlines contracts so low, refusing to fly turboprops at mainline, refusing to fly 50 seat jets at mainline, selling scope for the false sense of protection in their own jobs, and now whining to get age 65 passed.

You want to point fingers, point them at yourself. Anyone of use would have flown anywhere for any pay, to get into the industry. You can't blame the 21 year old that has an opportunity to fly at a regional, you would have do it too. In the 60's they would have gone straight to UAL (with NO licenses or college). Now those same guys, shame the regional pilots (with all their ratings and a 4-year aviation degree) saying that they are unsafe and have no place in the industry.

The shame, the demise of the industry, all that fault lies solely on the mainline pilots shoulders.

 

[Jon Rivoli]

[QUOTEYou can share any view you want. However, unless we give anymore of section 1 up you are headed for a whipsaw of epic proportions in the future. Way too many small lift providers and you all will be competing vigorously for the shrinking pie as airline systems are combined and rationalized.
][/QUOTE]

You dumb ass, we didn't want you to give up any of section 1 in the first place. Why would you give up more now?

 

[JoeMerchant]

You can share any view you want. However, unless we give anymore of section 1 up you are headed for a whipsaw of epic proportions in the future. Way too many small lift providers and you all will be competing vigorously for the shrinking pie as airline systems are combined and rationalized.

We have already been dealing with the whipsaw and it has put downward pressure on your rates and flying....Nobody wins with the whipsaw...Not even you...

Some of us will compete for the flying that remains.....that will involve taking concessions...which in turn puts further downward pressure on your pay and flying.

Some of us will slowly become competitors of yours over the next decade and some of us will fly much larger airplanes in direct competition with you.

You can have any viewpoint you want also...Doesn't mean it will happen however...

 

[OUjetdrvr]

The scope issue is being fought by the mainline with poor outdated strategy. Its time each mainline pilot group embrace each of their main regional groups and battle to get them on the same team and stop fighting and blaming them. Safety in numbers!
That may be the only way to stabilize the direction of the contracts at all levels. If you merge the planes and the pilots you have greater leverage. It can be done in obtuse ways to disguise what it is, i.e. a pure bi-directional flowplan!

 

[pilotyip]

Will this raise costs?

The scope issue is being fought by the mainline with poor outdated strategy. Its time each mainline pilot group embrace each of their main regional groups and battle to get them on the same team and stop fighting and blaming them. Safety in numbers!
That may be the only way to stabilize the direction of the contracts at all levels. If you merge the planes and the pilots you have greater leverage. It can be done in obtuse ways to disguise what it is, i.e. a pure bi-directional flowplan!

If this is done and results in jacked up costs to the airlines, there will be a down side. The consumer will dictate how many pilots will be employed at any given fare level. The higher the ticket prices, the lower the riders. Equals fewer flight, fewer planes and fewer crews. There is an unintended consequence of every action that has to be considered.