Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

A little pro-ALPA Koolaid for ya

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

buscap

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Posts
999
Please people!!

Let's stop blowing smoke up our respective poop shoots. Each of us are employees of seperate companies; companies which compete against against one another, quite often under the same quasi brand, with Delta Connection being an extreme and obvious example.

We are all fighting for our piece of whatever pie is out there, with the presently lame hope of getting on with an airline which pays more and perhaps has a better quality of life. It's that simple. There really is no such thing as koom-by-ya and whatever.

The only thing that matters in the end is that sometimes the undercutting and concessionary contracts are just plain stupid. It's not that any of us are being bad people and stabbing our fellow pilots in the back, but jeexe-almighty, we sure are being stupid.

Helping the company gobble up flying by working for less, may seem smart at the time, but the next thing ya know, you're wondering how it's all gonna shake out with some other pilot group's seniority list.

And we all know how ALPA and the Major MECs have contributed to this stupid mess. Our very existence should not have been allowed in the first place. But uneducated brick-heads like me do need a half-butted decent place to work, so thank you baby jesus for those shortsighted guys at Delta mainline twenty years ago!!!!

Now, with all that being said and ALPA's general depravity being established, I would like to submit that one big union, ALPA in this case, is still the last hope we have to effect positive change within our profession. From safety to general professional pilot advocacy, there is simply no alternative.

But, please let's stop the talk about brotherhood and how we shouldn't be stabbing each other in the back. This is a business!!!!

Rant complete.
 
If the DAL guys were not short sighted you might be a DAL pilot instead of a Delta Connection pilot...... now the question is..... which would be prefered?














(it is much more complicated though....... :) )
 
If the DAL guys were not short sighted you might be a DAL pilot instead of a Delta Connection pilot...... now the question is..... which would be prefered?

...and if wishes were horses...beggars would ride....

What should have happened is water under the bridge...what is done is done. The question now is how do you deal with the various interests...Not everyone wants to be a Delta pilot...Not everyone wants to start over again at the bottom...You can either come up with a mutual solution that benefits ALL interests...or we can continue to operate as separate interests....

What would have been preferred and what is now preferred are two separate things....
 
Joey,

What exactly do you think would be fair? Doh, relative sen, staple with fences? Do tell.




...and if wishes were horses...beggars would ride....

What should have happened is water under the bridge...what is done is done. The question now is how do you deal with the various interests...Not everyone wants to be a Delta pilot...Not everyone wants to start over again at the bottom...You can either come up with a mutual solution that benefits ALL interests...or we can continue to operate as separate interests....

What would have been preferred and what is now preferred are two separate things....
 
ALPA is the biggest problem in the industry.
They shouldn't be representing the regionals and majors.
They also should operate like a real union.....pay across the board for each airframe. Instead, ALPA helps the airlines whipsaw it's own pilots.
Also, at any other job in this country, when someone changes companies your pay can be negotiated. Instead, we go back to first year pay.
ALPA is like UAL and AA management. No matter how hard you try, you can't fix it. You just have to throw the whole thing out and start over from scratch.
The USAir pilots did, when will the rest of the airline pilots nut up and do the same?
 
Joey,

What exactly do you think would be fair? Doh, relative sen, staple with fences? Do tell.

Fair would be a "double staple"...If I go to the bottom of a mainline piece of equipment, then a mainline pilot needs to go to the bottom of the SJ list. What isn't fair is a 2 year mainline pilot coming in at the top here, while a 25 year DCI pilot would go to the bottom there...How is that even remotely fair? You are more than welcome to advance that position, but I would then counter it with DOH....It all depends on what your side is looking for as to what I would want our side to ask for...If your side is reasonable, I can be reasonable...If you are going to go for the gold, then so will I...Clear as mud?
 
Joe,
as it pertains to EV and OH, the double staple sounds like what you are going to get.

The way I see it, that is a win win for DCI. Staple to this list and your career expectations become far greater than they are today. If I staple to the bottom of your list, I get a job with no expectations.
 
Honestly, it doesn't matter to me- take all the DCI carriers, integrate them on a DOH list, and staple that list to the bottom of DAL. If something happens, I don't care, I'll go and drive a fork lift around a liquor warehouse for a bit til I get my "Report for MD-88 Training" letter. However, if a staple is what is in order, there should be no barriers to entry between the Regional carriers and Mainline. Simply weed out the non hackers in training/checkrides.
 
What isn't fair is a 2 year mainline pilot coming in at the top here, while a 25 year DCI pilot would go to the bottom there...How is that even remotely fair?


Because, Joe, there is virtually no comparison between the two jobs. The pay and QOL are simply on a different level. I spent 6 years at ACA, 2 at World and 2 (so far at DL) and I can tell you this is a whole other ballgame. Every section of the contract (with the possible exception of sick time reserve utilization) is far superior at mainline.

If you think there is a comparison survey your fellow pilots and ask how many built time at Delta with the objective of applying to ASA.
 
Because, Joe, there is virtually no comparison between the two jobs...If you think there is a comparison survey your fellow pilots and ask how many built time at Delta with the objective of applying to ASA.

Totally irrelevant. We're either all equal in the eyes of the union or we're not. Perceiving one's self at a different station of union privilege because of where you work is what's killing ALPA.

The double staple is absolutely fair. For purposes of bidding Delta equipment, ASA goes to the bottom of the list. For purposes of bidding ASA equipment, Delta goes to the bottom of the list. Two seniority numbers for equipment bidding purposes. You don't even have to combine the contracts or the companies. No bumping. Relative seniority is honored in good times and bad.
 
Last edited:

Latest resources

Back
Top