Skywest, Republic, and ALPA

[Rez O. Lewshun]

This could not be more true in regards to the last union drive.

The Skywest pilots weren't ready for ALPA last drive. ALPA should have stood down.... if a moniker on a message board stops one from making a professional decision.........

Was voting ALPA down a feel good decision? Emotional? The reasoning for representation is clear.


Maybe the OO pilots need to stop being treated professionally at the airport. But that won't happen... we'll still continue to help you with your jumpseat problems, smile and acknowledge you... and you'll think you are liked and maybe even respected.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Negative.........

pilots and labor are stakeholders in a company... how dare a union force a company to consider the stakeholders.... the reason why companies don't care about labor is because they are not legally obligated to..... Companies only care about shareholders.... that means labor is to be disposable and recycled.... the investors don't care about labor.

The pilots and labor are stakeholders...We need our company to make money and survive...Otherwise we are screwed....We compete with our fellow "union brothers" based on cost because your beloved ALPA screwed the pooch....Now us stakeholders need to look out for ourselves as ALPA clearly isn't...

 

[JoeMerchant]

The Skywest pilots weren't ready for ALPA last drive. ALPA should have stood down.... if a moniker on a message board stops one from making a professional decision.........

The Skywest pilots will never be ready for ALPA...In fact, the majority of ASA pilots would vote ALPA off the property today...

Maybe the OO pilots need to stop being treated professionally at the airport. But that won't happen... we'll still continue to help you with your jumpseat problems, smile and acknowledge you... and you'll think you are liked and maybe even respected.....

There you have it folks....The king of ALPA cheerleaders is now threatening Skywest pilots with the jumpseat....Simply because they don't believe in his snake oil sales job.....Rez....If you ALPA folks actually carry thru on this threat, I promise that it will get really ugly....You will see a jumpseat war that you aren't going to like....

The patience of the average ASA pilot towards ALPA is getting thin....push it a little further and you really aren't going to like the result....I and many of my ASA colleagues think of the Skywest pilots as brothers....something you ALPA cheerleaders simply can't grasp....

The Skywest pilots are liked and respected by many of us...You on the other hand...not so much.....GFY!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well it was JA that put downward pressure on XJT using SKW pilot's total compensation, not ASA's.

Mesa, PNCL, and mainline pay put downward pressure on ASA....All represented by ALPA.....

I guess we disagree in what is a conflict of interest. Personally, if the CAL MEC wants to scope in all jet flying, that is good for all pilots. My point is that MECs will do what is best for their pilot that doesn't always mean that they are different.

This is the heart of the disagreement and the reason ALPA won't succeed at the established regionals unless they change their tune.....About 30% of regional pilots (higher at the ASA/CMRs) have made a career out of the regionals....ALPA will never be supported by those pilots if that is the position of ALPA....If you don't win the hearts of the senior pilots at the regionals, then ALPA will never succeed at the regional level....

I don't know who Dan is. But seems as though you are more influential from the inside rather than by quitting.

Of course you don't know Dan B....You are a new guy who doesn't appreciate the history of how we got into this mess...Many of us have been working on this problem long before you got here....ASA and CMR pilots first warned ALPA of this mess 15 years ago...They ignored it...

There is unity in every MEC doing what is best for their pilots. There will always be differences at the fringes of issues. But ultimately, policy is only made when there is enough unity for it.

BS! Senior vs. Junior, Pension vs. pay, scope, age 60.....there is very little unity....Only an idiot or someone who is trying to protect ALPA would say anything else...Which are you?

 

[Nevets]

Mesa, PNCL, and mainline pay put downward pressure on ASA....All represented by ALPA.....

And Skywest pilots watch on the sidelines as they aren't able to try to help in this issue. They are given whatever Skywest management decides is comparable to others.

This is the heart of the disagreement and the reason ALPA won't succeed at the established regionals unless they change their tune.....About 30% of regional pilots (higher at the ASA/CMRs) have made a career out of the regionals....ALPA will never be supported by those pilots if that is the position of ALPA....If you don't win the hearts of the senior pilots at the regionals, then ALPA will never succeed at the regional level....

I don't see that as a problem. Whats the difference of making a career in at regional airline flying an RJ versus flying that same aircraft for the actual brand on the tail?

Of course you don't know Dan B....You are a new guy who doesn't appreciate the history of how we got into this mess...Many of us have been working on this problem long before you got here....ASA and CMR pilots first warned ALPA of this mess 15 years ago...They ignored it...

How do I not appreciate the history? Isn't I who always points out that we (especially those who don't contribute to it) take for granted what ALPA has done for the safety of our profession? That is THEE legacy of ALPA.

BS! Senior vs. Junior, Pension vs. pay, scope, age 60.....there is very little unity....Only an idiot or someone who is trying to protect ALPA would say anything else...Which are you?

Again, maybe just a disagreement in the definition of a word. And maybe you are right. What I'm saying is that at some level there has to be enough unity to make policy such as scope, age 60, etc. Or maybe its just the lack of interest of pilots to let their elective leaders know what unifies them? You know, apathy. Either way, it took unity to at some level to change or create any policy. And it can be changed again with further unity. Every union is an a state of dynamic unity as circumstances change. I just happen to beleive that ALPA leadership is working towards enhancing unity. Like I said, maybe you are right. I'm not afraid to say it because if I'm wrong, I'd like to know so I can work at making it right/better rather than resign/quit/pout/complain/etc.

 

[PCL_128]

Really, when was the last time you ever talked to your CEO?

Frequently.

I've called mine on many occasions and had very constuctive talks with him. I also see him in my jumpseat regularly. to say I don't have a voice in my career is extremely ignorant.

Skywest isn't the only thing affecting your career. The flight/duty time ARC in DC is going to significantly affect your career. You don't have a voice there. Cabotage will have a huge affect on your career. You don't have a voice in DC or on the international stage for that, either. Congress is currently debating new training, background check, and minimum hiring guidelines for pilots. Where's your voice there?

There's a hell of a lot more to an air line pilot's career than what happens within his own company. Time to pull your head out of the sand and join the rest of us in the fight for our profession.

In fact, the majority of ASA pilots would vote ALPA off the property today...

In that case, why aren't your pushing for a representational election, Joey? If it's so certain, then get off your ass and make democracy work for you! But of course, the real truth is that you're just a little whiner in the extreme minority that couldn't survive in the political process, so you just attack ALPA to make yourself feel better.

Of course you don't know Dan B....

I know him.....unfortunately. One of the sleaziest people I have ever had the displeasure of meeting. I was about to file Article VIII charges against him for his attempts to interfere with our organizing drive at AirTran, but he resigned his ALPA membership a few days before I could file. I feel sorry for the IBT guys that have to deal with him now.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I don't see that as a problem. Whats the difference of making a career in at regional airline flying an RJ versus flying that same aircraft for the actual brand on the tail?

I'm going to limit our discussion to this issue, because I actually believe you want a solution....The ASA and CMR pilots, including myself, tried this in 2001....We filed a PID request to do this very thing with ALPA/DALPA...It was denied because the fact of the matter is that there is a double standard within ALPA....Little airplanes are beneath those who have become "real airline pilots".....

I have no problem with what you said....I think it should be one seniority list from Saab to 747....but it isn't me who is the problem....

Now, that being said, can a mainline pilot bump me out of my RJ position in a single list? That is another problem we have.....

Again, I honestly believe you want a solution, but I also think you don't fully appreciate the position of the typical 15+ year regional pilot who has been trying to achieve a solution while ALPA has fought the solution....

 

[JoeMerchant]

In that case, why aren't your pushing for a representational election, Joey? If it's so certain, then get off your ass and make democracy work for you! But of course, the real truth is that you're just a little whiner in the extreme minority that couldn't survive in the political process, so you just attack ALPA to make yourself feel better.

As you know, it is very difficult to vote a union off the property...That being said, there is a group that is getting ready to run who aren't big ALPA fans...and I'm not one of them....

I know him.....unfortunately. One of the sleaziest people I have ever had the displeasure of meeting. I was about to file Article VIII charges against him for his attempts to interfere with our organizing drive at AirTran, but he resigned his ALPA membership a few days before I could file. I feel sorry for the IBT guys that have to deal with him now.

Ahhh yes....The "Article VIII" threat...I have been threatened with that for years now....yet none of you have the stones to follow thru....Please somebody....file article VIII against me.....It's an empty threat, and frankly none of care if you file article VIII chargers...

 

[Digger Dude]

Who is this Rez Retard.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm going to limit our discussion to this issue, because I actually believe you want a solution....The ASA and CMR pilots, including myself, tried this in 2001....We filed a PID request to do this very thing with ALPA/DALPA...It was denied because the fact of the matter is that there is a double standard within ALPA....Little airplanes are beneath those who have become "real airline pilots".....

No, it was denied because the companies weren't being merged, something required by ALPA Merger Policy. You can't force a merger when your contracts don't require it.

As you know, it is very difficult to vote a union off the property...

As someone who recently did it, I can tell you that that's certainly not the case. I got it done in about six months. Pretty simple, really. All you need is just a tad bit of political acumen, Joey. I guess that rules you out.

That being said, there is a group that is getting ready to run who aren't big ALPA fans...and I'm not one of them....

Ahh, that old trick again. If I remember correctly, we called a similar group the "Jackson 5" last go-around in '06. I'm sure the results will be similar again.

 

[JoeMerchant]

No, it was denied because the companies weren't being merged, something required by ALPA Merger Policy. You can't force a merger when your contracts don't require it.

The PID could have been approved without the companies being merged....You know that...ALPA merger policy does not require the companies being merged....You can have a single list with seperate certificates...and you know it....Just another excuse....

As someone who recently did it, I can tell you that that's certainly not the case. I got it done in about six months. Pretty simple, really. All you need is just a tad bit of political acumen, Joey. I guess that rules you out.

You changed union reps..That is easier than flat out decertification....You will see a change of unions here at ASA....Decertification is tougher than changing unions...Do some research...

Ahh, that old trick again. If I remember correctly, we called a similar group the "Jackson 5" last go-around in '06. I'm sure the results will be similar again.

Actually, this group has nothing to do with me....They are taking the ball and running with it on their own....I have no connection.....

 

[Nevets]

I'm going to limit our discussion to this issue, because I actually believe you want a solution....The ASA and CMR pilots, including myself, tried this in 2001....We filed a PID request to do this very thing with ALPA/DALPA...It was denied because the fact of the matter is that there is a double standard within ALPA....Little airplanes are beneath those who have become "real airline pilots".....

I have no problem with what you said....I think it should be one seniority list from Saab to 747....but it isn't me who is the problem....

Now, that being said, can a mainline pilot bump me out of my RJ position in a single list? That is another problem we have.....

Again, I honestly believe you want a solution, but I also think you don't fully appreciate the position of the typical 15+ year regional pilot who has been trying to achieve a solution while ALPA has fought the solution....

Of course I want a solution to problems. That is why I get involved rather than just complain and lament.

I think that ALPA has turned the corner on this issue with 20/20 hindsight. Its not hard to see how this has been a detriment to our profession. But since this is a Skywest Republic ALPA thread, how does Skywest or even Republic help ALPA in this issue?

By the way, I don't think that a mainline pilot should be able to bid an onto an RJ unless there was a vacancy. That would be my solution to that.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Of course I want a solution to problems. That is why I get involved rather than just complain and lament.

I and others who "complain and lament" have been involved....probably before you got to this game....The first ASA and CMR pilots warned of this problem 15 years ago....It was ignored by ALPA and the mainline elitists....Sorry if we don't expect much to change.....but we don't see much change....

I think that ALPA has turned the corner on this issue with 20/20 hindsight. Its not hard to see how this has been a detriment to our profession. But since this is a Skywest Republic ALPA thread, how does Skywest or even Republic help ALPA in this issue?

It's not Skywest nor Republic's job to help ALPA in this issue...It's ALPA's job to help if they are going to claim that they are necessary...Can't you see that...It is YOU who is selling ALPA...The burden of proof is on ALPA, and they have failed up until this point...Even you admit that....ALPA has to earn it's respect and job....It hasn't as of yet....

By the way, I don't think that a mainline pilot should be able to bid an onto an RJ unless there was a vacancy. That would be my solution to that.

But should that mainline pilot come in senior to me if there is a vacancy?

 

[Positive Rate]

Maybe APLA is the problem, representing a mainline group and a group that is taking the jobs of the mainline group...if you look up conflict of interest in the dictionary it gives this example.

Unfortunately, the group isnt taking the job...it was given by mainline...seems as though the mainline folks have tunnel vision of only flying the "big" stuff and not trying to make a business model work...If the company wants to fly smaller birds...the mainline guys should...to keep the power of a pilot group....but "its not worth it to them".....

I was in a jumpseat...and that was the impression given to me.....basically, they have no clue at mainline of whats going on at the regional level, or how the regionals got this way....in my eyes, they are to stubborn and blind to a big picture....so they blame the regionals for taking "their" flying when it seems its them as a pilot group(their MEC) gave it away.....

I hope they wake up and stop trying to stop it by scope...but do the flying themselves...after all they have plenty on furlough that are very capable.

 

[Nevets]

I and others who "complain and lament" have been involved....probably before you got to this game....The first ASA and CMR pilots warned of this problem 15 years ago....It was ignored by ALPA and the mainline elitists....Sorry if we don't expect much to change.....but we don't see much change....

I'm glad our founding fathers didn't have the attitude you have. If its worth doing, its going to take a lot of hard work for a long time to start to see change. I think we are starting to see the hints of change already. And don't make such a big deal about my inexperience. I'm on your side on this. We just disagree on how and who can fix it.

It's not Skywest nor Republic's job to help ALPA in this issue...It's ALPA's job to help if they are going to claim that they are necessary...Can't you see that...It is YOU who is selling ALPA...The burden of proof is on ALPA, and they have failed up until this point...Even you admit that....ALPA has to earn it's respect and job....It hasn't as of yet....

I feel that its our whole profession's job to fix this regardless of who's fault it was to begin with. We wont get anywhere if we continue to just look to put blame on someone. Its done and I think that its behind us, as far as those who were to "blame." That is how I'm trying to "sell" ALPA. We need to bring everyone together, whether it be ALPA, APA, etc (I just happen to be ALPA but I would feel the same if I was a member of another pilot union) so that we can continue to fix this. How can Skywest, jetBlue, Allegiant, and even RAH pilots since they aren't even part of CAPA, do ANYTHING without having a voice? That was the point of my comment.

But should that mainline pilot come in senior to me if there is a vacancy?

Depends on where that pilot would fall in an integrated seniority list.