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SWAPA TA Failure and downgrades

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shearedshaft

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Posts
190
What I wrote before is coming true. The "no" vote looks to be a very, very expensive decision.

Now we have Gary Kelly saying we're negotiating in a new environment (whups, I thought if we vote no the company was going to give us more money? Someone should tell the CEO, I don't think he got the message).

I've read that we have chief pilots saying that retro is now off the table, and to top it off:

23 captain downgrades in a month or so.

God only knows what that is going to do to the lances (does everyone get to keep their star? No? Yes? I thought many people voted no because of the lances, there were a little over 100 that would have lost their stars, where does this 23 fit in? Maybe over the next five months, the rest will lose their star, and we'll still not get our overdue pay raises. )

I've been been hearing from more and more that we just cut off our nose to spite our face.

In September, when your 6% raise doesn't show up (sorry 7% with the 401(k) bump) you can thank your lucky stars that we paid around $12,000 per year per pilot for a no vote. Sure was nice to save those lances. Well, 3/4th of them. Until September, then it might be 1/2 of them. Until January, where it might be...zero.
 
The sky is falling isn't it?

Perhaps not...the pilots are the most mgmt friendly group on property...the company would be stupid to not offer a bit more to put it closer to other groups and over the top and provoke a war with the most friendly group when other groups will likely follow suit down the road. Talk about cutting off the nose to spite the face. Dont get played here...this is a very conservative group of mgrs. Chuck would start a war, but Gary is not that foolish...luckily for the shareholders Chuck is not the "decider" here. LUV stock trades at premium to other airlines even now because of the business model and the traditional harmony with labor...they will not risk screwing that up.
 
Shearshift, 1st, you know nothing. God knows, you would also if you read the current contract. Get your facts straight; nobody is downgraded, they are still "Captains" if they choose to play the Lance game.

Second, if the TA passed it would have resulted in exactly the same, the loss of 23 hard captain lines. Every lance keeps their star, you never lose it. You can thank the OLD contract for that little rule.

It's the Chicken Littles like you who spread the fear that made this last vote so close. There is nothing in a passing of or failing of a TA that keeps Kelly and crew from doing anything with regards to manning, it was and is going to happen regardless. So please get over yourself and your'e prophetic prognostications. Here's one for you, the economy will suck for another year. No matter how we vote next time around, we will still lose more manning this fall. Hows that?
 
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well, real quick, show me the part in the contract that says they get to "stay" lances.

I'll be waiting.

P.S. I'll save you time, in the past they have allowed it, but it's not contractual. Since they're so enamored with the program, I'm sure they'll just let us double the lance size. Yep.
 
I don't know much about the LUV world, but I can state this: you may get a different contract, but I doubt you'll get a better one.

Think about it, if they hand the keys to the cash register for a simple no vote, doesn't that telegraph a message for all future negotiations with all the other work groups?

Take a good, hard look at Airtran, voting no has got them nowhere but years down the road with no raise.

I suspect that has just happened to LUV, you guys will get a contract, but down the road and will have given up a chunk of raises.

Or not, maybe telling your MEC turn this down was the best thing in the world to do, but history shows a different view.
 
Stay Lances? The part that says upgrade or out, the part that says once upgraded you always take the PC as a Captain. That part.
Since they're so enamored with the program, I'm sure they'll just let us double the lance size. Yep.[/
Yes, they will, per a little rule in the RLA...
 
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What I wrote before is coming true. The "no" vote looks to be a very, very expensive decision.

Now we have Gary Kelly saying we're negotiating in a new environment (whups, I thought if we vote no the company was going to give us more money? Someone should tell the CEO, I don't think he got the message).

I've read that we have chief pilots saying that retro is now off the table, and to top it off:

23 captain downgrades in a month or so.

God only knows what that is going to do to the lances (does everyone get to keep their star? No? Yes? I thought many people voted no because of the lances, there were a little over 100 that would have lost their stars, where does this 23 fit in? Maybe over the next five months, the rest will lose their star, and we'll still not get our overdue pay raises. )

I've been been hearing from more and more that we just cut off our nose to spite our face.

In September, when your 6% raise doesn't show up (sorry 7% with the 401(k) bump) you can thank your lucky stars that we paid around $12,000 per year per pilot for a no vote. Sure was nice to save those lances. Well, 3/4th of them. Until September, then it might be 1/2 of them. Until January, where it might be...zero.

Friend, as someone who has fast become the loudest SWA chicken-little on FI (even out-doing Mach 80), I keep wondering where was your voice BEFORE the vote ended?
 
Doom and gloom, Doom and gloom. Let's see how many guys take the buyout before you get your panties all up in a wad.

Wasn't the August schedule cut announced before we voted on the TA????????????????????

How could we not be overstaffed if we have cuts coming? This has nothing to do with the vote.
 
What I wrote before is coming true. The "no" vote looks to be a very, very expensive decision.

Now we have Gary Kelly saying we're negotiating in a new environment (whups, I thought if we vote no the company was going to give us more money? Someone should tell the CEO, I don't think he got the message).

I've read that we have chief pilots saying that retro is now off the table, and to top it off:

23 captain downgrades in a month or so.

God only knows what that is going to do to the lances (does everyone get to keep their star? No? Yes? I thought many people voted no because of the lances, there were a little over 100 that would have lost their stars, where does this 23 fit in? Maybe over the next five months, the rest will lose their star, and we'll still not get our overdue pay raises. )

I've been been hearing from more and more that we just cut off our nose to spite our face.

In September, when your 6% raise doesn't show up (sorry 7% with the 401(k) bump) you can thank your lucky stars that we paid around $12,000 per year per pilot for a no vote. Sure was nice to save those lances. Well, 3/4th of them. Until September, then it might be 1/2 of them. Until January, where it might be...zero.

Tom Dean, is that you?
 
Sounds to me like SWA management is doing a good job of turning SWA into just another legacy carrier with poor labor relations. If they're smart they'll reverse that trend quickly before it's too late. The money that they'll end up losing as a result of a disgruntled labor group that won't go above and beyond anymore will make the money required for a fair contract pale in comparison.

Take a good, hard look at Airtran, voting no has got them nowhere but years down the road with no raise.

And you would have a very hard time finding a single pilot here that regrets that decision. That TA was a disaster and far worse than current book. The scope concessions would have erased the jobs of hundreds of AirTran pilots, and the work rule concessions would have canceled out any pay rate increases. Stick to your own pilot group. You obviously don't understand things over here.
 

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