Air France tail found. Wow looks like a clean break....

[AAflyer]

Makes you wonder "when" the tail separated?

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/photo...=/090608/481/8a8f21f327494e49b05208639c0b2aed


AA

 

[Redmeat]

Sure does.

Wow.

 

[A-V-8]

Is the black box located in or near the tail on an A330?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Holy Cow! That cannot be good!

 

[rumrunner300]

"You don't get a lot of 'doyeee' these days."

Holy Cow! That cannot be good!

Um, we already know that it was not good.

 

[greenlight]

That looks a lot like AA587's tail. I'm a bus guy but I'm not smart enough to know what faults would be generated if the vertical stab separated in flight. The first acars messages were as followed (this list was borrowed from another site):

02:10Z:
Autothrust off
Autopilot off
FBW alternate law
Rudder Travel Limiter Fault
TCAS fault due to antenna fault
Flight Envelope Computation warning
All pitot static ports lost

02:11Z:
Failure of all three ADIRUs \
Failure of gyros of ISIS (attitude information lost)

02:12Z:
ADIRUs Air Data disagree

02:13Z:
Flight Management,
Guidance and Envelope Computer fault PRIM 1 fault SEC 1 fault

02:14Z:
Cabin Pressure Controller fault (cabin vertical speed)

The sequence and type of messages could be explained by the loss of the vertical stab. Now the question becomes what caused the stab failure? (If that in fact is what happened)

:-(

 

[crj567]

Is this the same type of plane that lost its tail over queens in NY right after 9-11?

Makes you wondering if they exaggerated that story about the FO horsing around with the rudder to cover up for poor design by the French? I sure wouldn't put it past the modern P.C. version of "international goodwill."

-Too early to judge, but damn if that whole thing didn't just break right off-just like that American crash over queens.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Is this the same type of plane that lost its tail over queens in NY right after 9-11?

Makes you wondering if they exaggerated that story about the FO horsing around with the rudder to cover up for poor design by the French? I sure wouldn't put it past the modern P.C. version of "international goodwill."

-Too early to judge, but damn if that whole thing didn't just break right off-just like that American crash over queens.

Nope. The AA aircraft was an A300, AF is an A330. Totally different animals.

 

[BigMotorToter]

Nope. The AA aircraft was an A300, AF is an A330. Totally different animals.

Not that different in regards to the tale.

Same company built both planes and I think both tails are composit tails?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Both the 330 and 300 are composite. What will be tell-tale is where the vert stab/rudder is located in proximity to the rest of the wreckage.

Then you end up with the question of whether the accident was causedby it separating or whether the already dying/dead airplane caused the tail to separate.... or whether it was just sheered off when it impacted the water.

Regardless.... that is a super clean break and the rudder even remained intact.

 

[Draginass]

Looks like massive structural breakup midair. It's amazing that the rudder is in such good condition regardless of where it departed the structure.

 

[another cfii]

Let's hope they find the blackbox sooner than later. I hope the families will not let the bureaucrats bury the findings on this accident. If some of the conjectures on here are correct, it may even shed some new light into the AA A300 crash in NY as well.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

For perspective...

Here's a good photoshop of the recovered tail "superimposed" on a similarly scaled 330 photo:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.file?id=536979610&filename=12444853949tDBLz.jpeg

 

[Singlecoil]

Here's a good photoshop of the recovered tail "superimposed" on a similarly scaled 330 photo:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.file?id=536979610&filename=12444853949tDBLz.jpeg

That was very well done.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

That was very well done.

Yeah, that was.

I thought the AA A300 broke down where it was mounted to the fuselage. This looks like it sheared off well above the mountings.

 

[Lear70]

I thought the AA A300 broke down where it was mounted to the fuselage. This looks like it sheared off well above the mountings.

It did and yes, it does.

I'd like to know where the tail section was found in proximity to bodies and aircraft debris...

IF it came off in flight, there's no telling how far away the rest of the tail section (and the CVR / FDR are at), although I'm sure they can draw some estimates based on altitude of the aircraft in cruise, maximum glide range (assuming it didn't just corkscrew straight down at that point) if the vert stab came off first and the rest of the aicraft didn't come completely apart when the vert stab came off, and drift speed of ocean currents.

If the vert stab separated when it hit the water (and the tail was close to the area of bodies recovered), they might have a pretty good chance at finding the FDR and CVR.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

02:10Z:
Autothrust off
Autopilot off
FBW alternate law
Rudder Travel Limiter Fault
TCAS fault due to antenna fault
Flight Envelope Computation warning
All pitot static ports lost

Whoa...hand flying thru severe wx and turbulence without rudder protection (I assume)....makes you go hmm...

 

[fly4surf]

Maybe 'they' knew we would go hmmm.....

and blame a heavy footed and incorrect pressure on the pedals again?

Instead of what it really is (or seems to be.)

 

[PHXFLYR]

...and everyone at work wonders why I wish we had Boeings .....

PHXFLYR

 

[Abernathy]

Maybe 'they' knew we would go hmmm.....

and blame a heavy footed and incorrect pressure on the pedals again?

Instead of what it really is (or seems to be.)

Or maybe not. What aim would terrorists achieve if they never took responsibility for an action and no one knew it was an act of terrorism...

Doesn't make any sense for this to be terrorism.

 

[fly4surf]

Didn't say terrorism.

How about capitalism,
Where money talks....

 

[BushwickBill]

Or maybe not. What aim would terrorists achieve if they never took responsibility for an action and no one knew it was an act of terrorism...

Doesn't make any sense for this to be terrorism.

Sometimes I wonder if we are all speaking the same language.

 

[spitfire1500]

Post deleted.....since I just caught myself speculating before the facts are in.

 

[Linedriver]

I don't fly an Airbus but I hear that the guys that do fly it, like it. However, it appears the thing is too automated - two down in just a few months - and now the structural design is in question. I never did buy the idea that a foot happy f/o brought down an airliner!

Boeing stock is up 10% since this crash.

I know what I won't be bidding - when I get the chance!

 

[spitfire1500]

I don't fly an Airbus but I hear that the guys that do fly it, like it. However, it appears the thing is too automated - two down in just a few months - and now the structural design is in question. I never did buy the idea that a foot happy f/o brought down an airliner!

Boeing stock is up 10% since this crash.

I know what I won't be bidding - when I get the chance!

Boeing stock is up because the 787 flight test program is projected to start this month.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I believe the perspective is off in that otherwise stellar overlay that someone did. The pictures of the tail in the ocean seem to throw off the perspective quite a bit. Very good effort, though.

It appears (when looking at other pictures of AF 330s) that it did broke off lower down and at the approximate attach points.

All speculation, obviously....but this will be a key point in the investigation if it did break off at the attach points.

 

[crj567]

Both the 330 and 300 are composite. What will be tell-tale is where the vert stab/rudder is located in proximity to the rest of the wreckage.

Then you end up with the question of whether the accident was causedby it separating or whether the already dying/dead airplane caused the tail to separate.... or whether it was just sheered off when it impacted the water.

Regardless.... that is a super clean break and the rudder even remained intact.

Good point-

I noticed that the rudder was still attached as well. I'll bet they will be able to figure out pretty quickly how it came apart. I do hope they can find the FDR. The tail may have come off for several reasons, but I sure would like to see if that prior problem with one of the pitot tubes could have had something to do with it.

 

[OO pilot]

...and everyone at work wonders why I wish we had Boeings .....

PHXFLYR

I do recall two 737s going down due to rudder problems.
I don't think one manufacturer has it perfect on everything.

 

[OurMoney1]

It is unlikely that they will be able to gleam much info from this piece alone. One piece of a puzzle doesn't paint a picture. What they need is the magic boxes and the worlds most talented deep sea salvige teams will be on scene in a few short hours;
The Navy.

 

[FR8mastr]

I do recall two 737s going down due to rudder problems.
I don't think one manufacturer has it perfect on everything.

I agree, but someone should tell Airbus, ALL their problems are always pilot error, sometimes like in Toronto its airport error.