Should an ATP be required for both pilots?

[SpauldingSmails]

In addition to an ATP, why not require at least verifiable employment of two years exercising the privileges of a commercial pilot certificate. Be it as a CFI, flying cargo, sightseeing tours etc... This way there's at least some verifiable history as to the performance of the applicant, an FAR121 carrier shouldn't be anyone's first flying job.

Additionally, the initial ATP rating should only be conducted by an actual FAA examiner (ie. not a DE). Anyone can go down to a puppy-mill flight school, pay their $2500 and walk away an ATP. If the FAA controlled all ATP checkrides directly, and the ride is provided without fee, the certificate gains credibility.

 

[BoilerUP]

...good intentions to reform the profession, if acted upon, which will lead to unnecessarily destroyed careers by the law of unintended consequences...

 

[SpauldingSmails]

...good intentions to reform the profession, if acted upon, which will lead to unnecessarily destroyed careers by the law of unintended consequences...

Languishing for years and failure to reform the profession have resulted in the unintended deaths of innocent people, and destroyed careers through miserable pay, work rules, and the success of sub-par operators.

 

[727gm]

But those that do the hiring are never going to increase the minimums unless it is required by law. They are only looking for the pilots who will work for the lowest pay, or even pilots will to pay to work.

What I was referring to was not the company's stated minimums or perverted desires, or FAA minimums, but the hiring captains retaining and exercising their own prerogatives in pilot selection.

 

[WayBack]

Languishing for years and failure to reform the profession have resulted in the unintended deaths of innocent people, and destroyed careers through miserable pay, work rules, and the success of sub-par operators.

Airlines have been crashing airplanes long before they were hiring guys with 300TT.
The ATP won't prevent airplanes from falling out of the sky.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

an FAR121 carrier shouldn't be anyone's first flying job.

That is the main issue. That GIA place has 250 hour "interns" flying the public around. That's just wrong. The requirements have to be raised.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Airlines have been crashing airplanes long before they were hiring guys with 300TT.
The ATP won't prevent airplanes from falling out of the sky.

I won't dispute the fact many experienced pilots have also crashed airplanes.

What's the harm in mitigating another factor though?

Maybe we need to do more than just require an ATP, maybe its time we evaluate how and to whom we award an ATP. Many schools won't issue a student an MBA without experience in the business world, nor an MD without a residency. Why not some long-term demonstration of judgement, ability, and competence before we just hand a certifcate out. Reform is usually more encompassing than just "ok, now you need an ATP."

For every Marvin Renslow that makes a smoking hole and flattens a house, there's a thousand others at most every regional airline out there that slip through the cracks and plod along... and maybe nothing will ever happen. But to sit back and say, "planes have been crashing for years" is fool hardy and arrogant. In day to day operations these guys can throw up a facade of competence, but when the game is changed ever so slightly their true abilities are brought to bare. Most regionals screening process is an utter joke.

 

[WayBack]

In day to day operations these guys can throw up a facade of competence, but when the game is changed ever so slightly their true abilities are brought to bare. Most regionals screening process is an utter joke.

It's simple. It's not an ATP that will increase safety.
You want to hire well qualified people, raise the pay. Plain and simple.
You raise the pay and you will be getting the resumes that you want in your pile.
But we know that will never happen.

 

[imacdog]

Wayback, I'm not sure how you can argue that requiring 121 pilots to have more experience and a higher airman rating will not improve safety. Requiring an airline rating to fly an airliner, gee what a concept.

 

[Mike man]

What is the difference in a PIC type and an SIC type, the seat and an engine relight? Why not just type everybody, its not like it would cost much more...its just that most regional FO's don't have the time.