Hawker 800XP....snap rolled 3-4 times

[BEfly]

Hundreds of corporate jets are rolled every day? Get real.

There are. Ok maybe not hundreds. I personally know several guys who have done it and are doing it. Guy I used to fly with would hitch rides on lears at his previous job (cargo). He said he would encourage them to do it and they would....multiple times! My dad's best friend was a lear demo pilot back in the 70's and they did it all the time. As part of the demo in some cases! A personal friend of mine, who read this thread, rolls corporate jets all the time and "doesn't see what the big deal is as long as you know what your doing". He considers himself to be a superior aviator because he does it. I say support your local flying club and find a Citabria or a Great lakes and get it out of your system.

 

[siucavflight]

BEfly, I am not saying that it does not happen. In fact at certain departments it may happen to the same plane over and over again all of the time, but I believe that reflects on the professionalism at each of those departments. I am saying where I work I know for a fact it does not happen, and I know plenty of other departments where it does not happen.

 

[Basil]

I remember watching a documentary on the Concorde years ago. A retired British Airways Captain was talking about his first training flight in the aircraft (no pax) when he was an FO. He said that the Training Captain rolled the Concorde, then gave him the controls (er, handling) and said something like, "Right...I've rolled it around, now you roll it back!" which the FO did. Given the small size of the Concorde fleet, it's possible that every one was rolled, at least at BA.

Anyone hear about other airliners intentionally rolled, other than Tex Johnston in the 707?

 

[siucavflight]

Anyone hear about other airliners intentionally rolled, other than Tex Johnston in the 707?

Ha, that would be awesome to see a concord rolling. But no I have not heard of any airliners being rolled.

 

[CDogg]

He considers himself to be a superior aviator because he does it.

... and these are the kind of tools that don't belong flying.

 

[BEfly]

Anyone hear about other airliners intentionally rolled, other than Tex Johnston in the 707?

There's a video of that somewhere. I think it was in Michigan. Someone rolled a DC-8 too maybe it was him.

 

[AC560]

1900 Barrel roll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTDsj_aLboI

Hope he/she rolled it a couple more times looks like they need the practice...

 

[CopilotDoug]

I think it's the funniest thing I've heard all day. The owner got exactly what he paid for. :laugh:

I was just thinking the same thing...at least he didn't have to pay his pilot much!

 

[AC560]

http://discussions.flightaware.com/viewtopic.php?t=5499&sid=286ab1272df6d8457e41afd7504b6606

 

[Caveman]

Hundreds? Every day? C'mon Fly91, that's quite a stretch. I think bizjets are rolled more than some of us want to believe. It probably never happens at places like NJA, but it does happen at less regulated companies and private small airplane operations.

How many of us have NEVER done dumb shiite in an airplane? I know I've done my share, but the more experience we get we're less likely to say "Hey, watch this." I cringe when I look back at my formative years of flying and remember some of the boneheaded things I did. Good or bad, it's part of the process whether you come up flying military, instructing, corporate or freight. As our flying progresses we get a little wiser and we start making better decisions. Nobody is out there on ferry flights rolling airliners and G550s, but the young guns and stupid old guys at small companies are still doing doing dumb shiite when they think no one is looking. Hell, truth be told it would probably happen more often in bigger planes if it wasn't for FDRs and cockpit tapes.

Just because you don't hear a lot about guys flying less than 8 hours bottle to throttle, or bizjet aileron rolls, or smoking dope doesn't mean it doesn't happen. All that stuff is illegal. People that do illegal things generally keep it to themselves.

I agree with Fly91. It probably happens more than you think (but not hundreds of times every day).

One more thing. An aileron roll in a Lear on the glide slope with no more than a dot of deflection? BS. First of all I don't buy anybody is stupid enough to try to roll an airplane while on an ILS. The one dot deflection is just frosting on a BS story. If you're gonna tell a tall tale you might as well go big and you certainly did that, but you went too far. I'm not buying it for one second unless the guys last name was Hoover.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Bobby Younkin

OK, I know this guy is a professional aerobatic perform (Albeit a dead one)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjzr-muZpEw

But whose to say these two clowns aren't?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR-FASIMOTQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ahC84ATzA8

 

[Fly91]

It happens zero at ours.

I know for a fact that a bunch of Gulfstreams have been rolled to death. But for the most part, its the smaller jets that people seem to roll all the time.

44,000 planes have taken off in the past 24 hours. If you think that AT LEAST 200 of them were not rolled on a dead leg, you're being naive man. Think about south America and the rest of the world too.

 

[Fly91]

BEfly, I am not saying that it does not happen. In fact at certain departments it may happen to the same plane over and over again all of the time, but I believe that reflects on the professionalism at each of those departments. I am saying where I work I know for a fact it does not happen, and I know plenty of other departments where it does not happen.

The only way you can know for a 100% fact that it doesn;'t happen at your flight department is if YOU go on every flight.

 

[siucavflight]

Fly, maybe I am naive as I have never seen it happen, and never heard it talked about, however I know the guys I work with, and they are not the type, I think it is safe to say that it happens at some places all the time, and at others hardly ever.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

Half of you guys don't know the difference between a SNAP-ROLL, Slow Roll, or Barrel Roll.

I doubt the Hawker was "snapped"

"I'm just saying"

 

[Fly91]

Half of you guys don't know the difference between a SNAP-ROLL, Slow Roll, or Barrel Roll.

I doubt the Hawker was "snapped"

"I'm just saying"

A said earlier in this thread, the co-pilot said that the captain was snapping it very abruptly and full left or right with the yoke. Not a textbook snap roll as one would do in an aerobatic plane. Bury the yoke in a rear corner with corresponding rudder, the tail may have broken off and possibly the inside wing from the negative G's imposed on it. The right wing on this plane is already bent beyond repair.

 

[Boch]

A said earlier in this thread, the co-pilot said that the captain was snapping it very abruptly and full left or right with the yoke. Not a textbook snap roll as one would do in an aerobatic plane. Bury the yoke in a rear corner with corresponding rudder, the tail may have broken off and possibly the inside wing from the negative G's imposed on it. The right wing on this plane is already bent beyond repair.

No negitive G in a positive snap. you should know that with your aerobatic experiance.

 

[Fly91]

No negitive G in a positive snap. you should know that with your aerobatic experiance.

If he tried to do a snap roll in a Hawker I'm pretty sure that right wing would have been more bent than it was, thats what I'm saying. He did the rolls to the left, that right wing was bent downward, as in NEGATIVE G loading. A Hawker cannot do a true snap roll, but if tried, you might snap that wing off.

 

[ableone]

One more thing. An aileron roll in a Lear on the glide slope with no more than a dot of deflection? BS. First of all I don't buy anybody is stupid enough to try to roll an airplane while on an ILS. The one dot deflection is just frosting on a BS story. If you're gonna tell a tall tale you might as well go big and you certainly did that, but you went too far. I'm not buying it for one second unless the guys last name was Hoover.

I believe this one. The lear has a fast rate of roll. None of the YouTube videos show someone trying a high rate lear roll.

The owner of one company I worked for rolled right after take off at about two hundred and fifty feet. By the time I realized what he was doing we were already upside down.

Another company I worked for used the Lear on a military contract for radar training and some air combat maneuvering. If the tiptanks are empty the airplane can be maneuvered very aggressively in roll without damaging the airframe.

 

[phr8dawg]

It would be interesting to do in a wind tunnel. Swept wing stalls are reportedly violent because they don't develop in a prdictable fashion like a wing with washout or stall strips. I'd also bet on at least one compressor stall. It might even deep-stall and go downhill tail-first. noooo thanks