Midwest Captain Writes About BUF Colgan Crash

[jetflier]

GEESH! This is an age old arguement !! There is never a winner. I have seen the military vs the civillian, high time vs the low time. What it all amounts to is being safe,...no matter who you are. A former student pilot, much wiser once told me a phrase that makes lots of sense,...the rule of the 6 p's,....prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

Pete's gone now, but his rule lives on....

 

[MCDU]

Truth of the matter is that the Colgan crew was very low time. The Capt was in his late 40's with a little over 3000 tt and about 150 in type!

The outsourcing that this Midex pilot is seeing has left him a bad taste, and lots of anger. He is observing the decline in this industry over the last 10 years and in doing so making many pilots mad as hell.Including me. The truth hurts.

Most major crashes in the last few years have been screw ups involving PFT pilots who would not be flying airplanes without paying their way to their job.

Flying is alot safer at the majors now. I remember omega, NDB approaches and monochrome radar screens and no EFIS. Flying has gotten alot easier and the majors now require lots of experience before they get hired. Thats why Majors are safer then ever and the regionals are lagging inspite of all the safety improvements like EGPWS and Auto Cal. radars, autopilots etc.


M

 

[JumpersAway]

It's a numbers game, and a simple one at that- the more regional/commuter flights there are, the more exposed they are to having an accident. There have been many, many accidents involving mainline, experienced crews. The Northwest Airlines runway incursion at DTW, the American Airlines accident in Columbia, and the Little Rock MD-88 to name a few. All of those had what we would term highly experienced crews. But for some reason, the regionals/commuters are living under a microscope.

Bottom line, my training is as valid as the next guys. The FAA isn't cutting me any slack and filling out a "Regional Pilot Just Learning To Fly" form when I completed my ATP and Type.

That Q-400, Saab, and Beach 1900 is probably more difficult to fly than that A-320, B767, etc.

I concur with everyone else on this Midwest D-bag.......total lack of tact, class, or brotherhood. Shame on him for his misplaced anger regarding his job outsourcing. I ache for those guys, but this guy can go to H###.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I think its a little early to be declaring this a pilot error accident. While pilot error is possible, other factors may have come into play, factors that even Scott couldn't have handled.

He probably should have waited for the results of the investigation before he published this.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Regardless of his point he is still a p. o. s. as far as I am concerned.... his comment can wait until the investigation is over. That would be the professional way to handle it.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Flying is alot safer at the majors now. I remember omega, NDB approaches and monochrome radar screens and no EFIS. Flying has gotten alot easier and the majors now require lots of experience before they get hired.

Funny how the "old days" creep up and visit still today.

About a year and a half ago at my Major, I found myself in max LDW, full 767-300, performing a basic NDB circle to land approach to minimums, at an airport with a 8300' field elevation, along with TRW's, 5 approach changes in 2 minutes and a runway change to a parallel runway on base. There was no EFIS map "overlay" and the missed approach procedure would have put us nose to nose with a AF heavy. Oh I forgot, we were also bingo fuel with an alternate that had one runway that could be shut down by someone's blown tire. This isn't some "look at me, I'm Chuck Yeager" story, it's how sometimes things deteriorate and any crew gets loaded up. No matter what though, the safest thing anyone can do if they have 50 hours or 5000 hours, is learn how to say "no".

 

[Blade Runner]

GEESH! This is an age old arguement !! There is never a winner. I have seen the military vs the civillian, high time vs the low time. What it all amounts to is being safe,...no matter who you are. A former student pilot, much wiser once told me a phrase that makes lots of sense,...the rule of the 6 p's,....prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

Pete's gone now, but his rule lives on....

Amen jetflier, these arguments are old and serve no constructive purpose. What will help all of us become safer pilots is the official NTSB report when completed and the lessons learned. May the crew and PAX's RIP, AND never be used or exploited to advance one's own political agenda.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

ex-pe-ri-ence (noun)

1 a: direct observation of or participation in events as a basis of knowledge b: the fact or state of having been affected by or gained knowledge through direct observation or participation.



It's hard to argue the experience level argument when you are comparing flight hours. It's pretty cut and dry. You have to becareful when painting the whole industry with a broad brush in my opinion.

We gain experience through others mistakes, and also from our own.

Anybody, ever pull off the runway or go to their hotel at the end of the night and swear, "I'll never do that again!"?????? I have!!!!!!!!!!!!

We've all scared ourselves to death in an airplane in the past, and probaly will do it again in the future, although we try our best not to. Hopefully nobody will get hurt or killed in the process of adding to our own "experience" levels.

There will be things we will all learn from Buffalo, and take it with us on our future flights.

 

[relief tube]

I'll be honest, if I was him, I'd feel the same way about the inexperience of some regional crews....BUT I WOULDN'T VOICE IT PUBLICLY.

He shows he's uncompromisingly bitter and shows no respect for the deceased crew or the investigation that has made no conclusions yet.

Don't be mad at the regionals, be mad at the new "ultra competetive/way too many airlines/bare bones cost" industry we've had for 10 years now that gives passengers $200 round trips with no service and mainline salaries that are almost half of what they used to be.

 

[ultrarunner]

Truth of the matter is that the Colgan crew was very low time. The Capt was in his late 40's with a little over 3000 tt and about 150 in type!...

Hmmm...while he might have been low-time in type, he'd been on Colgan property for 3 and a half years. Gotta believe he had more TT than what is stated above. Now, 3k total with Colgan seems plausible.

Ultra

 

[TV9Driver]

Although I agree with most of you that he shouldn't have written this piece, I think most of you are missing his point. That being, management is largely at fault for this situation. I don't think he is blaming the airline crew, but rather the airline management for being so cheap.

As for the experience argument, there really is no right answer. Military pilots are cut loose in T-38's and other high performance aircraft with little over 200-300 hours. I've flown with military and civilian pilots, and have been impressed by and sometimes scared by both types.

No one can argue that the experience level in the regionals has dropped off significantly in recent years. Back when I was getting my start (about 14 yrs ago) you needed at least 1200tt and 200m at a very minimum - and that was to fly a B1900. Last year I was talking to a pilot who just got hired at a regional with 350TT and 25multi - to fly a regional jet! I don't blame the pilot for taking the job - I would have jumped at the chance if it were me. I blame the airline for being so cheap and paying so badly that they have to recruit pilots out of pilot school in order to fill their cockpits.

Although he showed little tact in his letter, I think we as a pilot group need to bring this "state of the industry" to the attention of the media an public. Whether or not it will help our collective situation remains to be seen. I do know that whenever it comes up in a conversation with people outside of the aviation world, they are absolutely stunned when I tell them how much (little) regional and the majority of major airline pilots make. The general public still think we make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year - not hundreds of dollars.....

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

I knew what he was going to say just by reading the title of this thread. The airline that has put food on his table and given him a paycheck for however many years is being parted out to a bunch of less experienced "kids" and their shiny new jets. It sucks what Midwest is doing to their pilots, and I would be irrationally pissed and resent CHQ and all large regional aircraft pilots for "taking my job" as well. He is making a valid point to the public. I'm not saying what he did was right, but I totally understand why he did this.

 

[MALSR]

There are a plethora of "mainline" airline accidents that could have been avoided by a 250 hr commercial pilot. Case in point: forgetting to set takeoff flaps.

 

[Long-Gonner]

There are a plethora of "mainline" airline accidents that could have been avoided by a 250 hr commercial pilot. Case in point: forgetting to set takeoff flaps.

3 pilots changing a light bulb......on approach

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Like others have said, while he may lack tact, he does have a point.

Passengers not known for their grasp of what we consider "obvious". A slightly different uniform, some 6 point type on the side of an airplane or some fine print on the website are examples. If it says "Continental Connection" on the side, all they see is "Continental"...after all, the paint job is the same, right?

All they know is that they called up Continental, or went to the Continental website, booked a ticket, which they probably got in a Continental ticket jacket, and went to the Continental gates. Sure, there were SOME differences, but no more different that Pepsi and Diet Pepsi...I mean, it's all made by Pepsi, right?

Ever notice in the supermarket that the generic crap they sell is often in packaging that is remarkably similar to the good stuff?

This guy was simply point this out. I would have done it differently, but hey, at least he tried.

What is going on IS outsourcing to the lowest bidder. Ask anyone on the street "hey, would you want to fly on a plane where the pilot was the lowest bidder?". My guess is the answer would be "fkuc no".

Personally, I'd be only too tickled to see all the regionals back as commuters flying Banderanties.


Nu