Junior Positions by Base Combined NWA/DAL

[Scope out RJ's]

Same as it ever was.

 

[MCDU]

hello

 

[licorice]

Another post from a junior FO who will watch hundreds of NWA narrowbody guys come in on top of him. My heart bleeds......

Naw.... not hardly redtail, I just felt like:smash: hammering, mostly TIC, and no doubt overreaching, at what I perceived as a delusional post by NuNut. But, as to the seniority issue you speak of, do you really think the NW pilots enjoy such an advantage? -Or do you think it is only a perception of lost seniority on the part of the DAL pilots? A perception, however realistic or unrealistic, that NW pilots are only too happy to indulge and "waller" in....You know the kind.....from right-seat DC-9 Minot 9hr. layovers in January to 48hrs. on the Cote d' Azur in Nice, or basking in the other warm Mediterranean sun destinations: Milan, Venice, Barcelona, Pisa, Malaga, Athens, Tel Aviv and of course, Rome. What do you think, redtail, did you gain such a windfall in "losing" the the seniority list battle that you'll all have a "lock" on summering in the Mediterranean?

 

[FBN0223]

Frankly, I hope DL leaves the B757 Asia flying alone, so that my chances of encountering Delta guys like the one posting above is reduced significantly. I am off to Saipan. Later.

 

[licorice]

Frankly, I hope DL leaves the B757 Asia flying alone, so that my chances of encountering Delta guys like the one posting above is reduced significantly. I am off to Saipan. Later.

Now FBN, I resemble that remark, and I don't blame you, I wouldn't fly with myself either..(but I am forced to do so).....But look for some RDs this summer in Japan, as they have already announced 767ER flying there. Oh yeah, BTW, how do you like the guaranteed Business Class seat deadhead to Narita?.....As much as we like the "call in honest" policy we didn't get from NW?

 

[NuGuy]

Naw.... not hardly redtail, I just felt like:smash: hammering, mostly TIC, and no doubt overreaching, at what I perceived as a delusional post by NuNut.

Heyas,

Dunno...it seems some of your coworkers have a concern about it:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&id=news/DAL12318.xml

Nu

 

[Voice Of Reason]

boy oh boy...what pieces of work in ATL

Heyas,

Dunno...it seems some of your coworkers have a concern about it:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&id=news/DAL12318.xml

Nu

By Andrew Compart

"Some Delta workers are worried about the number of Northwest executives and officers given leadership positions in the post-merger airline.
A representative of one of the work groups spelled out these concerns in a letter he e-mailed to employees earlier this month. But the representative also staunchly defended the leadership selections and urged employees to keep an open mind.
The message came from Joe Piller, who represents the supervisory and administrative personnel group on the Delta Board Council. The council meets with airline executives and attends board meetings to represent Delta non-contract employees and provide insight on their perspectives, concerns and ideas, and Piller’s group accounts for about 10% of the non-contract employees at the pre-merger Delta.
In July, Delta unveiled a nine-member leadership team for the post-merger carrier that included five of its most senior executives, and four from Northwest. In an additional announcement Oct. 31, two days after the merger became official, Delta announced more leadership changes that included internal promotions for COO and CFO, and a mix of Delta and Northwest executives and officers for other positions.
In Piller’s e-mail, distributed only internally but obtained by AviationWeek, Piller tells workers the Board Council has heard their concerns about the makeup of the post-merger leadership. Piller did not say how many employees expressed such concerns, and did not respond to AviationWeek requests for comment.
“As organizational charts for the new Delta are being published, Delta people are asking the Board Council questions concerning Northwest co-workers and how they will fit within the Delta culture,” Piller wrote. “Some have told us, ‘It seems like we have more Northwest leaders than pre-merger Delta leaders in the new company. Will they carry-on the Delta culture that is legacy and heritage valued by generations of Delta people and customers?’”
But Piller also tries to allay those concerns in his message, which he sent solely to members of the work group he represents, although the message apparently has since been passed on to other workers as well.
“There is no question the Delta that we know today will most definitely change with the blending of talent from both companies as we combine the strengths of two great airlines into one,” he said. “I think we can’t forget that the success of Delta is a history of mergers and acquisitions which have changed the business and the culture for the better over time. I know Delta will continue to grow on the foundation we have built over the last 79 years and will now include the best from Northwest. I also believe the new Delta will carry-on the fundamental principles that have made Delta a great airline.”
“As I’ve said, Delta people are concerned by the arrival of so many new leaders and co-workers from Northwest,” Piller continued. “What we have to remember is that no one is really ‘born’ at Delta...well, except for perhaps a few second and third generation Delta people. Most of us come to Delta from somewhere else; Pan Am, Western, the military or a company outside of the industry. I think it’s more important to see what kind of people these new leaders and co-workers are from Northwest, what they believe in and do they have the Delta DNA that makes our culture unique.”
Piller asked workers to “keep in mind recent successful leaders and colleagues who came to us from other companies.” He cited former CEO Jerry Grinstein as “the perfect example of a leader who was not ‘born” at Delta.” He also cited current CEO Richard Anderson, who spent 14 years in leadership positions at Northwest but “has made a commitment to manage by the values of the Delta culture” by putting the airline’s guiding principles in writing.
“For Delta people who fear Delta’s culture will be unrecognizable in a couple of years because of the merger, I think we’ll see that some aspects of Delta’s culture will certainly change like it did with previous mergers in our history. But that change will be shaped by Delta people,” Piller assured them. “The culture of a company can certainly be guided by its leaders, but it is owned by its employees and customers. It is the responsibility of every Delta employee to keep the best parts of our culture and heritage and pass it along to the new members of the Delta family regardless of how they come to Delta.”
Delta declined to comment on Piller’s message."
Photo: Delta

Find this article at:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&id=news/DAL12318.xml

 

[GogglesPisano]

No wonder they're worried. Compare labor relations at both companies. The atmosphere at NWA was described by many posters on this board over the years.

Why would we want that at DAL?

 

[Superpilot92]

Broken record!

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

GogglesPiano does have a point in that regard...

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Tall Tale Telling Goons creating a facade

No wonder they're worried. Compare labor relations at both companies. The atmosphere at NWA was described by many posters on this board over the years.

Why would we want that at DAL?

That's actually hilarious. because I know a lot of people didn't want to go there because DL was just the opposite of what you are saying, just a couple years ago...It has changed that quickly? Must have been bringing on the Ford & Harrison guy in HR that gives you that faux feel good tingle? That or someone is living in the WAYYYYY past.

Delta MEC Chairman Letter (re-posted on ALPC) "March 24, 2006

Dear Fellow Pilot,

Yesterday, March 23, the hearings before the three-man neutral panel
concluded in Washington, D.C. Throughout the course of the hearings, I have
been dismayed but not surprised as I continue to observe that Delta's senior
executives choose to diverge from the central philosophy that made our once
great airline a success. They have forgotten that in a customer service
industry like ours, people matter. It was our culture.

Delta founder C.E. Woolman understood that people matter. He used that
philosophy to turn a small southern crop dusting operation into one of the
most successful airlines in the world. Mr. Woolman iterated this core belief
when he said, "All airlines are the same. Only the people make them
different," a statement that is just as true now as it was when he said it.
"This business," Mr. Woolman said, "is nuts and bolts, but it's primarily
people."

Herb Kelleher, founder and long-time CEO of Southwest Airlines, understands
this philosophy too. He took the idea of a small intra-state discount
airline and arguably turned it into the most successful low-fare carrier in
the world. His business model was innovative, but others tried to copy it
and failed. Why? Because people matter. Mr. Kelleher implemented his plan
with the understanding that he needed to staff his airline with good people
and then treat them right. Despite the fact that they have the most heavily
unionized workforce in the U.S. airline industry, with employees who are
paid at or near the top of industry scales, Southwest consistently makes a
profit and ranks at the top of customer satisfaction surveys.

Both of these men knew that leaders take care of their people, and, in turn,
their people take care of the customers. Conversely, the most dedicated
people -Delta people-can be stifled by poor leadership.

In 1993, Delta and others were experiencing many threats similar to what we
face today, though to a smaller degree. Still, Delta was ranked as Number
Two in Fortune magazine's "100 Best Companies to Work for in America." The
esprit de corps of the Delta family was the envy of the industry. Today,
however, under the "leadership" of the current senior executives, we don't
even make the list of the Top 100.

Delta senior executives continue to distance themselves from the historical
leadership style that made Delta a success, choosing instead to more closely
align themselves with a "Lorenzoesque" management style, including the
hiring of former Frank Lorenzo associates. Make no mistake-you don't hire
Frank Lorenzo's team to implement a pro-employee, team-building strategy.
Lorenzo justly earned a reputation as the most anti-union boss of the late
20th century. In the long run, his tactics were viewed as fatally flawed and
his name became synonymous with union busting. Now, his legacy is alive
here.

Still, Delta's current senior executives like to pretend that they
understand how important the Delta employees are. At the 2004 Annual
Shareholders meeting, our current CEO stated, "Based on 16 years with
Delta's Board of Directors, and even before, I know that what makes this
company special is its people."

But actions speak louder than words. At Delta, ticket agents have been
replaced by kiosks. Mechanics have been outsourced with questionable
financial returns for the effort. Flight Attendants are staffed so thinly
that they are unable to provide their former level of service. Reservation
agents' jobs have been moved overseas. Management seeks to eliminate
furlough protections for pilots while they use the legal system to fund
their own "management furlough fund." And of course, Delta senior management
has decided that they want to reject the pilot contract in total. It appears
that was always their intent. You will recall that Delta management referred
to their term sheet as their 1113 filing even before they filed for Chapter
11. Once in Chapter 11, they wasted little time before filing their 1113
motion.

Throughout the Chapter 11 process, and the 1113 process in particular, and
despite the rhetoric to the contrary, Delta management's philosophy has been
that people don't matter. To them, costs-and only costs-matter. To them,
employees are not assets; they are liabilities. A true leader does not speak
of valued employees and then reject those employees. But that's exactly what
the 1113 process is about-rejection. It's about the rejection of a
collective bargaining agreement. But it's also about the rejection of a
bargaining process that has worked successfully for over six decades, and,
above all, it is about a rejection of the Delta pilots, the frontline
employees who hold so much of the future success of Delta Air Lines in their
hands.

The decision to take the 1113 path was a management choice, and as I wrote
to you last fall, it was also a management failure. By choosing the path of
failure, they abdicated their duty to meaningfully negotiate in order to
take what management perceived to be the easy way out. But, as most of us
learned when we were still children, rarely is the easy way out the best way
out. If management had been able to make the intellectual argument for a
business case that supported their demands, they could have done so outside
the 1113 process, and as we always have, we would have listened and
responded appropriately. But they could not. Instead, they have attempted to
use the 1113 process to extract brute force concessions.

Let me provide you with an example. As part of Letter 46, and to ensure that
the Delta pilots would not be unfairly targeted in the event of a Chapter 11
filing after making concessions of $5 billion dollars, Delta management and
ALPA signed the Bankruptcy Protection Letter (BPL). This letter was also a
very important part of Letter 50. Now, Delta senior executives try to make
the argument that the Bankruptcy Protection Letter is somehow not about
bankruptcy, and that it doesn't provide protection. It's a bizarre line of
reasoning based on legal maneuvering in an attempt to avoid living up to the
terms of an agreement like honorable men should.

People matter, but until and unless Delta's senior executives embrace that
concept, Delta cannot succeed.

One must wonder what Mr. Woolman would think of the airline he created if he
were alive today.

Fraternally,

Lee Moak, Chairman
Delta MEC"

 

[jetjockey#1]

none.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

:::::crickets:::::
:laugh:

That's actually hilarious. because I know a lot of people didn't want to go there because DL was just the opposite of what you are saying, just a couple years ago...It has changed that quickly? Must have been bringing on the Ford & Harrison guy in HR that gives you that faux feel good tingle? That or someone is living in the WAYYYYY past.

Delta MEC Chairman Letter (re-posted on ALPC) "March 24, 2006

Dear Fellow Pilot,

Yesterday, March 23, the hearings before the three-man neutral panel
concluded in Washington, D.C. Throughout the course of the hearings, I have
been dismayed but not surprised as I continue to observe that Delta's senior
executives choose to diverge from the central philosophy that made our once
great airline a success. They have forgotten that in a customer service
industry like ours, people matter. It was our culture.

Delta founder C.E. Woolman understood that people matter. He used that
philosophy to turn a small southern crop dusting operation into one of the
most successful airlines in the world. Mr. Woolman iterated this core belief
when he said, "All airlines are the same. Only the people make them
different," a statement that is just as true now as it was when he said it.
"This business," Mr. Woolman said, "is nuts and bolts, but it's primarily
people."

Herb Kelleher, founder and long-time CEO of Southwest Airlines, understands
this philosophy too. He took the idea of a small intra-state discount
airline and arguably turned it into the most successful low-fare carrier in
the world. His business model was innovative, but others tried to copy it
and failed. Why? Because people matter. Mr. Kelleher implemented his plan
with the understanding that he needed to staff his airline with good people
and then treat them right. Despite the fact that they have the most heavily
unionized workforce in the U.S. airline industry, with employees who are
paid at or near the top of industry scales, Southwest consistently makes a
profit and ranks at the top of customer satisfaction surveys.

Both of these men knew that leaders take care of their people, and, in turn,
their people take care of the customers. Conversely, the most dedicated
people -Delta people-can be stifled by poor leadership.

In 1993, Delta and others were experiencing many threats similar to what we
face today, though to a smaller degree. Still, Delta was ranked as Number
Two in Fortune magazine's "100 Best Companies to Work for in America." The
esprit de corps of the Delta family was the envy of the industry. Today,
however, under the "leadership" of the current senior executives, we don't
even make the list of the Top 100.

Delta senior executives continue to distance themselves from the historical
leadership style that made Delta a success, choosing instead to more closely
align themselves with a "Lorenzoesque" management style, including the
hiring of former Frank Lorenzo associates. Make no mistake-you don't hire
Frank Lorenzo's team to implement a pro-employee, team-building strategy.
Lorenzo justly earned a reputation as the most anti-union boss of the late
20th century. In the long run, his tactics were viewed as fatally flawed and
his name became synonymous with union busting. Now, his legacy is alive
here.

Still, Delta's current senior executives like to pretend that they
understand how important the Delta employees are. At the 2004 Annual
Shareholders meeting, our current CEO stated, "Based on 16 years with
Delta's Board of Directors, and even before, I know that what makes this
company special is its people."

But actions speak louder than words. At Delta, ticket agents have been
replaced by kiosks. Mechanics have been outsourced with questionable
financial returns for the effort. Flight Attendants are staffed so thinly
that they are unable to provide their former level of service. Reservation
agents' jobs have been moved overseas. Management seeks to eliminate
furlough protections for pilots while they use the legal system to fund
their own "management furlough fund." And of course, Delta senior management
has decided that they want to reject the pilot contract in total. It appears
that was always their intent. You will recall that Delta management referred
to their term sheet as their 1113 filing even before they filed for Chapter
11. Once in Chapter 11, they wasted little time before filing their 1113
motion.

Throughout the Chapter 11 process, and the 1113 process in particular, and
despite the rhetoric to the contrary, Delta management's philosophy has been
that people don't matter. To them, costs-and only costs-matter. To them,
employees are not assets; they are liabilities. A true leader does not speak
of valued employees and then reject those employees. But that's exactly what
the 1113 process is about-rejection. It's about the rejection of a
collective bargaining agreement. But it's also about the rejection of a
bargaining process that has worked successfully for over six decades, and,
above all, it is about a rejection of the Delta pilots, the frontline
employees who hold so much of the future success of Delta Air Lines in their
hands.

The decision to take the 1113 path was a management choice, and as I wrote
to you last fall, it was also a management failure. By choosing the path of
failure, they abdicated their duty to meaningfully negotiate in order to
take what management perceived to be the easy way out. But, as most of us
learned when we were still children, rarely is the easy way out the best way
out. If management had been able to make the intellectual argument for a
business case that supported their demands, they could have done so outside
the 1113 process, and as we always have, we would have listened and
responded appropriately. But they could not. Instead, they have attempted to
use the 1113 process to extract brute force concessions.

Let me provide you with an example. As part of Letter 46, and to ensure that
the Delta pilots would not be unfairly targeted in the event of a Chapter 11
filing after making concessions of $5 billion dollars, Delta management and
ALPA signed the Bankruptcy Protection Letter (BPL). This letter was also a
very important part of Letter 50. Now, Delta senior executives try to make
the argument that the Bankruptcy Protection Letter is somehow not about
bankruptcy, and that it doesn't provide protection. It's a bizarre line of
reasoning based on legal maneuvering in an attempt to avoid living up to the
terms of an agreement like honorable men should.

People matter, but until and unless Delta's senior executives embrace that
concept, Delta cannot succeed.

One must wonder what Mr. Woolman would think of the airline he created if he
were alive today.

Fraternally,

Lee Moak, Chairman
Delta MEC"

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Wait until the AE is posted. There may not be too many junior DAL guys on wide bodies to upset.

 

[Fly4hire]

:::::crickets:::::
:laugh:

Yeah, but Richard Anderson is "on board" with the DAL pilots.....oh, the irony..... ;>

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Yeah, but Richard Anderson is "on board" with the DAL pilots.....oh, the irony..... ;>

Business is business. I prefer a displacement to an airplane that I will be a line holder on than to the unemployment line.
If they need to furlough they will. It is about money and numbers. Any one who thinks otherwise is kidding them selves.
There may be a tiny bit of good will with not furloughing a few 100, but if that surplus becomes bigger, they will have no choice. The carrying costs of those pilots becomes too great. (Sucks but that is the truth)

 

[123]

There may be a tiny bit of good will with not furloughing a few 100, but if that surplus becomes bigger, they will have no choice. The carrying costs of those pilots becomes too great. (Sucks but that is the truth)

How many is a few hundred? Can you quantify a little more?

thanks

 

[ACL65PILOT]

381 fat. (Was not enough a month ago to trigger the need for furloughs) If the loads tank that number goes up, and we have to much fat which will need to be cut.

 

[jetjockey#1]

Is that number from the DAL side only?
You can speculate all you want about furloughs, but, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to furlough before SOC, which I would prefer, fair is fair. One pilot furloughed before SOC would come back right away after SOC if there is a pilot junior to him still on the property from the other company. Relax, we are all pretty safe till SOC; afterward, who knows?

 

[GogglesPisano]

Voice of Reason: I was wondering when you'd drop a Ford&Harrison reference.

Don't forget to check your tinfoil for holes.